The steam FPS counter includes frame generation FPS FYI

4 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

Glad you got to a sweet spot. I think G-Sync, DX12, and FG are the ultimate way to play this sim at the current time with it being largely CPU limited.

Just a clarification, FG uses Reflex mode to minimize the latency, it's not that FG doesn't like low latency, it's a requirement... and Reflex ultra low latency in particular. Any other latency settings in NV CP are ignored and ideally should be off for games that support Reflex, like MSFS.

I'm curious why you prefer to lock your FPS at 60 rather than let it run unlocked.  Do you see less stutters or is it just a psychological thing?

That's the point since FG HAGS enabled is low latency and reflex, so when you enable more low latency stuff like in the driver software it will actually not benefit but makes the stutters or skipping frames worse...

It's also advised to have only running HAGS with FG (reflex) and no further latency stuff... have to lookup the technical paper and advised about this one...

With GSync there isn't the need for Vsync at all when working correct... and TrackIR will benefit also form HAGS and FG and low latency.
Locked at 60FPS learned that the quality output here local gives great "Tin city (photogrammetry) and texture stuff great quality with the Fenix A320.
Not those melted cities from a distance or near a large airport.
Learned also that FSTL has some issue regarding FPS (even with down scaling the textures myself less VRAM) and audio (MSFS has a limit of objects that can generated audio in the sim)
Further for Track IR 60 fps or the max 120 fps is the sweet spot 😉

Biggest mistake was to have several low latency options running which gives stutters and or skipping frames with FG and DX12 in MSFS...
As for DX11 I only use reflex (low latency software mode which overrules the Nvidia setting anyway) in the sim and it's also butter smooth.
I agree the sim is still CPU limited but I have a balance now in all conditions from heavy to light.
Have to say Gsync is a must also here local.

So when I compare my old RTX3080 with this one the difference is huge 🙂

Edited September 1, 20232 yr by virtualstuff

1 hour ago, virtualstuff said:

That's the point since FG HAGS enabled is low latency and reflex, so when you enable more low latency stuff like in the driver software it will actually not benefit but makes the stutters or skipping frames worse...

It's also advised to have only running HAGS with FG (reflex) and no further latency stuff... have to lookup the technical paper and advised about this one...

With GSync there isn't the need for Vsync at all when working correct... and TrackIR will benefit also form HAGS and FG and low latency.
Locked at 60FPS learned that the quality output here local gives great "Tin city (photogrammetry) and texture stuff great quality with the Fenix A320.
Not those melted cities from a distance or near a large airport.
Learned also that FSTL has some issue regarding FPS (even with down scaling the textures myself less VRAM) and audio (MSFS has a limit of objects that can generated audio in the sim)
Further for Track IR 60 fps or the max 120 fps is the sweet spot 😉

Biggest mistake was to have several low latency options running which gives stutters and or skipping frames with FG and DX12 in MSFS...
As for DX11 I only use reflex (low latency software mode which overrules the Nvidia setting anyway) in the sim and it's also butter smooth.
I agree the sim is still CPU limited but I have a balance now in all conditions from heavy to light.
Have to say Gsync is a must also here local.

So when I compare my old RTX3080 with this one the difference is huge 🙂

From what I’ve found, current authority on all things Nvidia and G-sync related is Blurbusters.com. Check it out… https://blurbusters.com

What I’ve learned is Reflex is the latest DX12 low latency mode and it’s forced on by FG and it must be supported by the game, which MSFS obviously does. The NV control panel Ultra Low Latency settings only apply to DX11 and will be ignored if Reflex is on. It also caps frame rate a few below refresh rate when used with g-sync and v-sync to avoid FPS exceeding refresh rate where G-sync obviously can’t operate… https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/14/

V-Sync on is recommended, even with G-Sync, (which is counter intuitive) to account for frame time variations. https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/15/

The bottom line is… these are the best setting for an Nvidia 4xxx cards with G-sync displays to eliminate tearing and minimize latency…

- G-Sync enabled for both full screen and windowed mode - critical if you ever have a pop-out or other window up

- V-Sync On in Nvidia Control Panel

- Turn off any and all frame limiters (Nvidia, game, etc) - not needed 

- Disable V-Sync in game

- Enable DX12, Frame Generation, Reflex Low Latency in-game

ps.  I forgot to say it sounds extremely odd to me that photogrammetry scenery rendering improves if you cap your frame rate at 60 vs uncapped? That sounds very strange to me. I honestly don’t believe that’s possible… do you have screen shots?

One last thing, if you’re capping frame rates, the recommendation is to use in-game limiters. It’s lower latency and it makes sense for the engine itself to be setting the limit… https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/15/ (2nd to last FAQ). 

Edited September 1, 20232 yr by Virtual-Chris

46 minutes ago, Virtual-Chris said:

- Enable DX12, Frame Generation, Reflex Low Latency in-game

ps.  I forgot to say it sounds extremely did to me that photogrammetry scenery rendering improves if you cap your frame rate at 60 vs uncapped? That sounds very strange to me. I honestly don’t believe that’s possible… do you have screen shots?

Well the settings I'm settled on are great here local with great result 🙂

Have been at the source above been there done that, but not for my system. I don't agree on the Vsync part 😉 after testing a lot here local and that is what matters in the end...
I don't have screenshots, but that's how it's here local if you don't believe the result fine by me. My guess is it gives the CPU here local also some more headroom...

The locked lower FPS gives a more consistent average and GSync is always engaged, so it's smooth no lags or skipping frames.
I'm not for the contest of the highest fluctuating FPS.
AS with DLSS 3 FG HAGS is needed with and reflex. Wasn't mention that one correct in the previous message after re-reading.

AS for reflex it's disabled the option in MSFS with FG enabled, and then it's on by default in the background.
Anyway thanks for sharing the source, but already have been there will have a look at my own technical document...

Edited September 2, 20232 yr by virtualstuff

2 hours ago, virtualstuff said:

Well the settings I'm settled on are great here local with great result 🙂

Have been at the source above been there done that, but not for my system. I don't agree on the Vsync part 😉 after testing a lot here local and that is what matters in the end...
I don't have screenshots, but that's how it's here local if you don't believe the result fine by me. My guess is it gives the CPU here local also some more headroom...

The locked lower FPS gives a more consistent average and GSync is always engaged, so it's smooth no lags or skipping frames.
I'm not for the contest of the highest fluctuating FPS.
AS with DLSS 3 FG HAGS is needed with and reflex. Wasn't mention that one correct in the previous message after re-reading.

AS for reflex it's disabled the option in MSFS with FG enabled, and then it's on by default in the background.
Anyway thanks for sharing the source, but already have been there will have a look at my own technical document...

It makes sense that you probably don’t need v-sync if you’re capped at 60 as it apparently helps with tearing due to frame time variance which is probably not a common issue when running a cap. And you’re never going to hit FPS>Refresh so you’re good there too. 

I will try capping at 60FPS but I don’t expect any difference. In my mind it’s sorta like capping the speed in your Porsche at 30 because you occasionally drive through a school zone on your way to the Autobahn. 😝

At the end of the day, you gotta do what works best for you. 

Edited September 2, 20232 yr by Virtual-Chris

On 9/1/2023 at 9:22 AM, Virtual-Chris said:

If you don't have G-Sync, you're just not going to be in an ideal place. It's interesting that you've invested in the absolute premium CPU and GPU but not G-Sync?  I'm not sure G-Sync works on more than the primary display... it only works on the "active" window or fullscreen game so I guess it depends how Asobo implemented multi-monitor support. But even if each MSFS display is a different "window", the main display is probably the most important anyway. 

The cost of the 3 x 50" 4K TV's was expensive enough. Not sure I could have found or afforded 4 x 50" 4K displays that also featured g-sync. Below is a picture of my setup.

On 9/1/2023 at 9:22 AM, Virtual-Chris said:

You should try V-Sync FAST in NV Control Panel. That's what I used to great effect before I got G-Sync (but it was also before I get a 4090 with FG). That might help any tearing you're seeing... Dunno. You can also set a frame limit in NV Control Panel to 3 or 4 FPS below your refresh rate, or maybe even in game.  Although Frame Generation with Reflex and V-Sync on in NV CP should limit your FPS to less than your refresh automatically. At least it does with G-Sync. You really need to get G-Sync for the best modern display experience.

What is the refresh rate of your displays? What FPS are you getting?

Yeah, I've tried every combination of v-sync in the NVCP without success. No doubt running triple monitors (MSFS windows) is a complicating factor - limiting the FPS via the NVCP also creates weird effects (splits FPS to 1/3 in the game) and introduces huge latency. 

The best combination I've found is to either us no FG at all and just run V-SYNC locked at 50% internally to MSFS - At most airports I can maintain that 30 FPS (my displays are 60Hz). If i'm flying into a place like EGLL or KLAX then I'll turn on FG for the main window and just deal with the inconsistent frames and maybe a little bit of tearing. 

What confuses me is that i get a main thread hit (albeit not huge) when turning on FG - I thought that would all be on the GPU but clearly not.

 

1 hour ago, KL Oo said:

The cost of the 3 x 50" 4K TV's was expensive enough. Not sure I could have found or afforded 4 x 50" 4K displays that also featured g-sync. Below is a picture of my setup.

Yeah, I've tried every combination of v-sync in the NVCP without success. No doubt running triple monitors (MSFS windows) is a complicating factor - limiting the FPS via the NVCP also creates weird effects (splits FPS to 1/3 in the game) and introduces huge latency. 

The best combination I've found is to either us no FG at all and just run V-SYNC locked at 50% internally to MSFS - At most airports I can maintain that 30 FPS (my displays are 60Hz). If i'm flying into a place like EGLL or KLAX then I'll turn on FG for the main window and just deal with the inconsistent frames and maybe a little bit of tearing. 

What confuses me is that i get a main thread hit (albeit not huge) when turning on FG - I thought that would all be on the GPU but clearly not.

 

That’s an enormous rendering load. I’m surprised you can get 3x 4K at 30FPS. Take it and run. 😝

What are the three displays up top for?

I run a single 77” 4K OLED with G-Sync and with head tracking I get a pretty good field of view. 

Edited September 2, 20232 yr by Virtual-Chris

12 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

It makes sense that you probably don’t need v-sync if you’re capped at 60 as it apparently helps with tearing due to frame time variance which is probably not a common issue when running a cap. And you’re never going to hit FPS>Refresh so you’re good there too. 

I will try capping at 60FPS but I don’t expect any difference. In my mind it’s sorta like capping the speed in your Porsche at 30 because you occasionally drive through a school zone on your way to the Autobahn. 😝

At the end of the day, you gotta do what works best for you. 

Not locked my framerate for that reason don't have any tearing with my 165 Mhz Gsync monitor.
Anyway I'm happy after gone through a lot of testing here local and find the sweet spot, just sharing my process
and maybe someone will benefit from that 😉
But it will be different for anyone just due to so many different parameters / hardware, but DX12 + Reflex + FG + Gsync is a gamechanger here local...
(Ps. DX12 implementation will need more attention from ASOBO)
 

Edited September 2, 20232 yr by virtualstuff

17 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

That’s an enormous rendering load. I’m surprised you can get 3x 4K at 30FPS. Take it and run. 😝

What are the three displays up top for?

I run a single 77” 4K OLED with G-Sync and with head tracking I get a pretty good field of view. 

Yeah - I realise I'm asking a lot of the PC to render that many pixels!! Generally at smaller Intl airports (ESAA, EKCH etc) I can maintain 30 FPS with a modest amount of AI traffic on as well.

I use the displays up top for LittleNavMap, Pilot2ATC, A Pilots Life Chapter 2 along with things like AICompanion...if I could plug in another two displays I would! 🙂

I'd love to have had a ultrawide monitor but I worry about the stretched image like you get with NVidia surround. I've tried that path and just couldn't deal with the stretched image.

 

3 hours ago, KL Oo said:

if I could plug in another two displays I would!

https://video.matrox.com/en/products/video-walls/quadhead2go-series/q155-appliance