FSHUD beta: Do not say your opinion - you will be banned

[FSHud 215]

16 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It strikes me reading through this topic some bridge-building is needed. It helps neither the developer or paying customers to criticise each other.

May I respectfully suggest those who have been banned are reinstated and a more considered tone is adopted by all.

You all want this program to succeed. Work together and keep reports purely objective. State the steps required to reproduce a bug. That's all that is needed for beta testing.

There is a huge difference between:

"Your program is the worst frustrating thing I've ever seen."
AND
"There is a problem with A, B, C and D - by providing more or less exact information".

The mention for user exclusion from the forum relates to first example.
And this is something relates to any product users forum, which calls "respective behavior".

@Fiorentoni - believe me, I know several people who have been banned from MSFS forum, only because of such sayings.
None of the product developers are interested to hear such things "Critics without any basement".

[guenseli 1,598]

11 minutes ago, FSHud said:

"Your program is the worst frustrating thing I've ever seen."

 

You write that bold and with quotation marks.

I just want to make clear, that IS NOT a statement I made at any time!!!

Don't know why you write that here now. What do you try to achieve?

Edited September 9, 2023 by guenseli

[Danno 192]

22 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

No sim had either one.

It’s been awhile but I think the only FSX traffic thing I bought was the helicopter package. Putting aside the past, I’ve been hoping for a developer to come up with a replacement for FS2020 traffic and ATC to upgrade was MS gave us. FSHUD may have been the solution. I’ll wait for the final release to judge.

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Danno

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

38 minutes ago, FSHud said:

There is a huge difference between:

"Your program is the worst frustrating thing I've ever seen."
AND
"There is a problem with A, B, C and D - by providing more or less exact information".

The mention for user exclusion from the forum relates to first example.
And this is something relates to any product users forum, which calls "respective behavior".

@Fiorentoni - believe me, I know several people who have been banned from MSFS forum, only because of such sayings.
None of the product developers are interested to hear such things "Critics without any basement".

Why are you engaging/arguing/debating with customers/potential customers in a public forum? Engage them in private if you have issues. Doesn’t do your look any good at all, whether you’re right or wrong. 

[Ray Proudfoot 9,017]

45 minutes ago, FSHud said:

There is a huge difference between:

"Your program is the worst frustrating thing I've ever seen."
AND
"There is a problem with A, B, C and D - by providing more or less exact information".

The mention for user exclusion from the forum relates to first example.
And this is something relates to any product users forum, which calls "respective behaviour".

I completely agree. It’s unhelpful and achieves nothing except getting your back up. But was the user given a warning not to continue with that tone? If they did but ignored it then you had no option to remove them from the closed beta group. If it was a single outburst banning them was excessive.

But as a paying customer they’re still entitled to access the user forum.

I’m not taking sides here. Being external I can look at things objectively without passion.

[guenseli 1,598]

Thanks Ray,

just to make my point of view clearer:

 

This is not a beta where you get invited and get the product for free at the end.

I have paid for FSHud and the current non-beta version is untouched since a year (maybe I'm wrong here)

The beta is ongoing since over a year. (April 22)

 

I already requested some kind of information what could we await from FSHud in the future and when.
Currently it is still lacking most essential features. Does not seem a too surprising request as I have paid for a long time ago.
But these requests get completely ignored!

 

 

The point is, that the dev already took my money. I feel very eligible to ask about the development or say my opinion (no, it was not rude).
There could have been a lot of other methods to discuss this with me.
Banning me from official customer support forum and the beta immediately without discussion is the worst he can do.
 

[carlanthony24 577]

If paid for and not able to receive support. I would do a chargeback

[Ray Proudfoot 9,017]

@guenseli, thanks for clarifying the situation. Looking at the website as a potential customer I can see very little describing what the user can expect. Perhaps the key phrase is “…every aircraft around you, is under ATC control...”. Clicking on the Flight1 link does give more info.

I would expect the version on sale to work as described. Perhaps the beta version has extra features. I see the Flight1 site says this about the beta… “the cutting edge new features”.

Those features are not described.

A request for more info doesn’t mean it has to be provided. I waited years for FSL Concorde info and nothing was provided although I accept I was a prospective customer, not one who had bought it. Developers are under no obligation to provide info requested.

All I can suggest is you raise support tickets for things you feel don’t work as intended. That might be easier with the non-beta version which could have issues as the site warns.

[Sethos 4,423]

Regardless of of what did or did not happen; banning, suspending or removing people from forums or groups over small stuff, slight disagreements or not liking a tone is, in my opinion, one of the worst looks for any company or developer, because it signals insecurity and power abuse.

 

[Gate99 246]

20 hours ago, guenseli said:

So, after a few minutes I was banned from the beta forum (ok, can't understand if he do not like critics) and also from the official customer forum (I'm sure I can work this out as a paying customer with Flight1)

you can make your own opinion.

Nothing personal but without seeing your actual quoted post any further discussion about it is being done in a vacuum. There is no way to determine how proper or improper it was.

[Christopher Low 5,376]

2 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

In order to get both decent AI and ATC in FSX and P3D I purchased AI programs and ATC programs. No sim had either one.

The default ATC system in P3Dv4 is fine for airport environments. Not perfect, but definitely usable. I also use a custom database of AI planes with custom AI flightplans, but I do not use an AI Manager.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Christopher Low

[simbol 5,832]

I am heavily surprised. @guenseli is what I call a professional Beta tester, I been using his advices and services for years.

Not only he is extremely useful in finding anomalies and bugs, but he is a very honest and a very direct tester. When a problem is reported he always helps to find the reproducible steps, and will always reconfirm uppon any updates released if the bug is fixed or continues to occurs, or still have issues.

Now, He can be extremely direct with his reports and opinions, he is that kind of person that would  tell you straight to your face what he thinks, why he believes something is wrong and his opinion how it could be improved. This can be presented as a bit harsh sometimes, but quite frankly it is something I rather my beta testers do than sit silent on a corner and let annoyances or bugs pass the quality control to then hit real customers that would complain about the same.

I invite beta testers to my teams with this purpose, verify I am doing a good job and my software is doing a good job, my expectation is people telling me I am not doing great when i do mistakes so I can correct myself, if I wanted people to just cheer for me, I would be inviting cheerleaders instead, way more fun..

Any others developer reading this, if @guenseli ever gets to your teams, consider yourself lucky (assuming you really want to heard real criticism), it is warrantied he will find problems and will push you to get those fixed not matter what, that's how passionate he is about flying simulation, no better quality to have for any tester..

Just my two cents, I wish fshud all the best, specially with the state of the SDK in terms of AI behavioral control.

Best,

Raul

[FSHud 215]

1 hour ago, carlanthony24 said:

If paid for and not able to receive support. I would do a chargeback

He is able to get support.
And this is exactly the reason why I'm answering here and taking part of it.

As mentioned in previous post - the best way to get support is via ticket (which can be opened from the application).
or
Our contact forum (can be found in main page).
or
Facebook

Those ways are much more effective and there much more chance that the problem would be noted or resolved.
Forum is more intended for free talking and suggestions.

Asobo also bans users from their official forum - is it means that they left off without any support?

Edited September 9, 2023 by FSHud
Modify text

[carlanthony24 577]

Just now, FSHud said:

He is able to get support.
And this is exactly the reason why I'm answering here and taking part of it.

As mentioned in previous post - the best way to get support is via ticket (which can be opened from the application).
or
Our contact forum (can be found in main page).
or
Facebook

Those ways are much more effective and there much more chance that the problem would be noted or resolved.
Forum is more intended for free talking and suggestions.

What ever way you look at it though banning someone from a customer part of the forum is well silly and will just cause more problems for yourself's.

[FSHud 215]

1 minute ago, carlanthony24 said:

What ever way you look at it though banning someone from a customer part of the forum is well silly and will just cause more problems for yourself's.

As said above - every company and developer does it when it comes to rude, non-respective conversation.