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Guest jcmckeown

Blurries and contention (round 2)

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With the advent of SP2/acceleration I'd like to restart the discussion originally started after SP1 in the following thread:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...01559&mode=fullSo I have tried acceleration (that includes the SP2 fixes) and I must admit that I am feeling a little let down.Let's just recap:* FSX RTM absolutely no blurries* Install FSX SP1 the dreadecd blurries are all over* Installed acceleration, same issue as in SP1* Revert to RTM (no other changes) blurries are goneI'm using photo scenery with small texture tiles. I hoped that in SP2 there would be a fix but unfortunately that didn't materialize.Another interesting item is that some people, especially those with older setups (and single core) are not getting the blurries with SP1.I honestly think that Phil had a point when he originally mentioned "contention" some while back. I have tried upteen fixes, have installed all the suggested vista patches, tried running under XP, tried to run FSX using just one core using the AffinityMask directive, tried lowering frame rate to 20 or less, nothing sorts out the issue except... a simple revert to RTM.I'm sure this is something configuration specific, but there again the configuration is fairly common:* Core 2 duo 6600* 8800 GTS* RAID 0 disk array* Asus P5B DeluxeI'm sure we are a minority of people affected and equally sure that there is some sort of vicious contention bug but I've never been able to nail it down and nor have ACES in SP2. Could the same type of issue be causing issues with some people's directX 10 setup and not others?I wonder if there is a way to disable one of the cores on my Core 2 duo to emulate a single core machine.Best regards to all,JC

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JC,I hate to say it but I have a P4-3.4ghz, single core and have had the blurries since SP1 and now even more so with Acceleration. I have been about "tweaked out" trying to get rid of those little monsters. CarlDell E510, P4-3.4ghz, 2gram, 7600GS-256mb, window XP.

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Can someone explain what RTM means?I searched this forum, but never found an explanation.-z-

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Interesting-I have a system almost identical to you except I have a 512mb 7600 and vista. I don't get the blurries at all.Just a question, as I think all of us would like to help solve this issue.Have you tried Luis F

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from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTMRelease to manufacturing or Ready to market, in the Software release life cycle so RTM==release to manufacturing in our context.when we ( the release team at Aces ) push the "send the ISO bits to the DVD manufacturing process" button in the corporate release tool we have reached that stage.

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The reason the single core may not have blurries is because of this parameter.{MAIN}FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=.60This works in single core and its moot in multi core. If I understood correctly.ctiger,Put that parameter under MAIN and see if you still get bluries. that value should be betteen .01 - 1.0 Try .60 if it jitters or pauses too much reduce it to .33 and then try some value between .33 and .60 etcHope that helpsManny

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Thanks for the tip Manny but I already had 0.6 for the FIBER FRAME FRACTION and unfortunately it isn't helping.JC

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I have no blurries what so ever with SP2 under DX9.You may want to try renaming your fsx.cfg file and let FSX rebuild a new one. Especially if you have done some tweaking.

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Geofa,Yes, I have tried that and sometimes there are no blurries and then at other times blurries appear. I can use the "pause" and watch the textures get better with time. It is very confusing since there have been times I have no blurries with medium settings for an entire flight. The next day I can do the same trip and have blurries. Maybe there are little gremlins inside my computer. I must say this forum has been most helpful and patient for those of us that still can't seem to get rid of the blurries. Since the start of FSX many folks have been trying to wrestle with this problem. I believe I have read every potential fix that has been presented on this board. In fact there are several times when I thought I had the magic bullet but the blurries always find away back on my screen. Since it appears the only difference we have is the video card and I use XP and DX9.0 maybe your NVdia card settings could be helpful. I have tweaked the card settings and fsx many times but no long term change. By the way, Manny, my Fiber Frame TF is set at 0.40. Have tried between 0.33 and 0.60. No change.Have no stutters and frames are reasonable using "unlimited" or fixed at 20 fps.Appreciate everyone's help,Carl

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I don't think that it worth trying to emulate single core. I have a single core machine (Pentium M770), an ATI X1950 Pro, and I have exactly the same problem. This is so upsetting...It works nicely without blurries in RTM, but is awfully blurry on photo realistic sceneries (France VFR) in SP1 and SP2, even without autogen, with a high fiber frame time fraction and after having tried all tweaks I found on the web.My only option now is to have 2 installations of FSX: one RTM to fly on photo realistic sceneries, and one SP2/acceleration to fly on the non photo realistic sceneries. I am not sure it is actually possible, but I will try.

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Well we will keep trying-hopefully there is a magic answer.One other thing I didn't mention is I have no virus checker on my fs computer-I found even with excludes it was causing performance issues. I know, maybe not for the faint of heart-but my simming performance is more important to me.I am just using the stock nvidia settings and letting "application decided" everything. Then setting aa,and aniosotropic in fs.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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You can add my single core system to the list of those with SP1/SP2 blurries, and of course the only fix I have found is reverting to RTM.If I use 1.0 Fiber Frame Fraction it does in fact reduce the blurries a bit, but the textures are still a step or two behind and never snap into full sharpness like they do with RTM, and that is not a practical setting as it cuts my framerate down below the RTM value and I get horrible stuttering.

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When FSX was first out there was a lot of hope when the Mip Map solution came up, which eliminated the blurries. The problem is shimmering was introduced, which also made the screen somewhat grainy. If I have no filtering set in FSX, it will eliminate the blurries but shimmering will occur. If I add bilnear,or trilinear the blurries will come back. Carl

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thanks,Will give it a try since that is one that I have not tried and would be most obvious. Carl

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Hi Carl, what's your Global Texture Quality at? If maxed, perhaps try a notch or two lower. IMHO, many of the blurries statements make sense because 256/320MB GPUs won't bite FSX at max texture sizes (1024x textures), high settings and hi AA/AF. The 'scenery composition' blurries and not enough resources causing blurries are two separate issues as far as I would dare to judge. Kind regards Jaap

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Ok maybe if FSX wasn't too busy checking to see if its activated the blurries would dissapear. That's alot of wasted energy I.M.O.

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Thanks Jaap,I have tried lowering the Global Texture but can not see any difference. I just finished starting with a new FSX.cfg. That started with global at minimum. So far I have gradually started moving sliders up and getting a mixed bag. Will keep working with it and see what happens. I guess what you mentioned is why if I am in blurry state and pause the flight I can see the textures sort of "pop" in place making very clear and detail textures. When I unpause the blurries will normally come back gradually but not always. ( very confusing) All I know is scenery is really great when there are no blurries. I have set autogen anywhere from none to medium and do not see any more or less blurriness. Carl

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>>I'd be curious if you get them with those exact settings..>>The results are in!Ok I set all settings to the min/zero value except for the ones noted above, though I had to set LOD Radius to max otherwise it was a blurry mess. So mesh is at 38, textures at 1m, LOD Radius at max, and global textures at max. Everything else was far left. The resolution is 1152 with AF, locked at 21fps.These are all full speed in the SF260. The first two are after I isntalled SP1. I deleted the cfg and the results did not change. http://sio.midco.net/FTP4/SP1.jpghttp://sio.midco.net/FTP4/SP1d.jpgThis is the same test after uninstalling SP1, all settings are the same. There is a resolution transition line where the red mark is, and while it would get a little bit closer, it stayed about the same distance out. With SP1 that line soon passes right by, and then the next wave of progressive blurr might even move in.http://sio.midco.net/FTP4/SP1c.jpgAnd just to show how good the RTM version works, here are my normal settings, and the normal texture clarity of FSX. The RTM version is still the best in my opinion, though if I stick with it I'm left out of many add ons. I hope the problem can still be found.http://sio.midco.net/FTP4/RTMa.jpghttp://sio.midco.net/FTP4/RTM.jpg

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How interesting, I am also using France VFR and the only fix so that textures are OK is to revert to RTM. SPI/SP2 are a disaster. Something is broken in SP1/SP2 with the texture engine although nobody has ever found what is wrong. Default textures BTW are OK in SP1/SP2 however there are much less of them in a standard scene than when one is flying with photo real sceneries.The thing that really bugs me is that something changed between RTM and SP1, surely it must be quite simple for the ACES team to determine what was changed. Phil has already commented that the code that deals with the scenery texture loading has not changed significantly between RTM/SP1 but the simple fact that when we revert to RTM all works well is a tell tale sign that something has changed and is not yet fixed in SP2. SP3???Regards,JC

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Just one info I would like to add, which could help Phil to understand what happens. I really have the feeling that it is not a question of texture loading speed or updating speed.In RTM, you have blurries when you go to fast with too many details, then you pause and blurries disappear, first close to you, then further and further. Fine.In SP1/SP2, it is very common that some close textures are more blurry than others which are further. Then when you pause, these textures takes forever to refresh, and during this time nothing happens (nowhere in the scene), a bit like if they were refreshed after a timeout, and not after some higher priority computation.Another interesting point is that it is common that some textures are blurry close (like 1km) to the starting point, where they should obviously be loaded and displayed in full details when the simulation begins.So here is my theory: some textures are "forgotten". The system believes they are loaded but they are not. When they are finally displayed, it is after a timeout, when the system has made an update and decided to redisplay them.This could be completely wrong, but I hope that it will help people at aces to figure out what is wrong and to make a nice patch for us.

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There has been much speculation on what could be happening and I provided Phil and the team with quite some detail in the previous threads. Unfortunately the problem was never really identified. Christian has more or less confirmed the same with Tileproxy, i.e. RTM is the only real option at the moment as something is wrong with texture loading in SP1.JC

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>In SP1/SP2, it is very common that some close textures are>more blurry than others which are further. >>I have noticed this as well.

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>There has been much speculation on what could be happening>and I provided Phil and the team with quite some detail in the>previous threads. Unfortunately the problem was never really>identified. >Christian has more or less confirmed the same with Tileproxy,>i.e. RTM is the only real option at the moment as something is>wrong with texture loading in SP1.>>JCwhat i find most frustrating is that in a thread full of (mostly respectful) folks searching for answers to this problem, the only response here from aces is a wikipedia definition of what RTM means. the blurries issue that arose from changes made initially in SP1 is one of the most talked about technical issues with FSX on this and other FS forums, yet it was never directly addressed or even really acknowledged by the developers. its bizarre.

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JC,OK, how about some blasphemy - I have a high-end system similar to yours and I've never had any blurries. I don't think it is the CPU, nor the graphics card, nor the settings.The only thing that is different from your system to mine is the amount of memory and maybe the quality of same. Yes, that goes against all you've heard from gurus and so-called gurus.Here's my system:EVGA 680i moboIntel E6700 CPUEVGA 8800 Ultra graphics card4Gb RAM - Corsair (bought in 1Gb matched pairs - not individually)2 Sets of RAID 1 disk drivesLiquid cooled CPURunning FSB @800 to match memory speed - no overclockingFSX Acceleration w/o DX10 PreviewFSGenesis LC and meshPayware aircraft such as PMDG and LVLDMultiple heavy-duty scenery packages - Mega Airport Budapest, Zurich, Heathrow, etc.I don't know what your situation is but if FSX was my primary use of my computer I would do the following - purchase 4Gb Corsair memory and check to ensure your CPU is running specs with regard to heat. Note: I do not use the 3Gb switch. Check your BIOS to ensure everything is set to specs.It is impossible to match systems and get the same results. But, if I'm not getting any blurries then I believe you have hope to eliminate yours. You just need to find the right combination (probably not settings/tweaks) of components.fb

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Well Beetle, I didn't comment but was effectively surprised to see that Phil commented on RTM but not the core topic. The chap does have a day job though. Indeed, if you go back to the original thread, you'll see that at the time, we managed to have a "reasonable" discussion between "reasonable" people.At the end of the day FS is a hobby, a game or whatever each of us wants to make of it but it's not a life or death matter. I am disappointed that this issue didn't get fixed with SP1/SP2 but it's up to the ACES team and Phil as to whether they want to follow this up or not. In the same way as with the original thread I started several months back, I'm ready to help troubleshoot but I didn't write the code and the decision as to whether this should be followed up or not is not in my hands...JC

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