OnAir, Neofly, Air Hauler 2 and The Skypark Opinion Request

[Jazz 1,047]

When I bought the FSR500 I decided it need a purpose so I opted to try the 7 day trial of OnAir. At first I felt it clumsy and a bit awkward and I don't care for having to Alt-Tab to start tracking. I dislike having to unfocus MSFS for reasons I shan't go into. Anyway, despite the things that irritated me I really enjoyed it and I have found that since the trial expired I have lost the will to want to fly without it and consequently, I find myself exploring my options.

I would be grateful for your opinions and experiences of these programs. Espescially those of people that have used 2 or more of them. Obviously, I have used OnAir and have some idea of what it does but I don't care for the subscription model and it does feel overpriced. That said, I would be willing to buy 6 months and see how I go.

Having just looked on the Neofly website it seems that the foundation is actually free. This I didn't expect. I can't see a buy option for it at all but I do see options to buy the extras which I would do as I want all the functions. It also seems that it uses Sky4Sim as its in-sim interface, which, I assume, would negate my issue of Alt-Tabing out to start OnAir, would it not? It also looks much cleaner and slicker than OnAir so I suppose my question is what does it add or lack in comparison? And, can I choose what I want to fly? I'm not prepared to fly a default cessna when I have an A2A Commanche and FSR500 in my hanger.

I'm also curous about The Skypark. This doesn't look as deep as the other two but looks rather fun. And what of Air Hauler 2?

I should add that I do own A Pilots Life 2 which I have been using for airline stuff and I enjoy it but that serves a different purpose and I really rather fancy a change. I don't care for the UI of that product either, to be honest. Perfectly serviceable but it's nearly 2024 and, well, my presentation expectations have rather changed from those of the 90's. I hope that doesn't seem terribly unkind. It's just the way it is.

Now, let loose with those views. And please, be honest. I want to hear about what you dislike as much as what you do like about them and if you have any other suggestions for me to look into let loose with those too.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Jazz

[sd_flyer 6,091]

Air Hauler 2 need some love and feel very outdated. I wish JF made a new version. Pilot Life 2 woudld't be ideal choice as it designed for fixed scheduled airliners. My personal preference is NeoFly. It's good compromise and great for GA

[qqwertz 798]

If you search for the individual addons, you will find a thread on all of them, even fairly recent threads. I have tried them all, here is my CEO summary:

- OnAir: excellent program with a lot of good features. However, it also has so many annoyances that I can't stick with it. I do a one-month subscription every year to see how it has evolved, I did one just earlier this month. I stopped using it after my flight attendants weren't trained for my single airplane and had to go on a three-day workshop to let me fly. For me, way too much focus on airline management. In addition, it lacks some basic options (like being able to fly domestic routes only).

- Neofly: good program, free, but a bit too gamey for me. Financials are unrealistic, and I don't like that I can't fly my favorite planes right from the start.

- Air Hauler 2: maybe the most complete _airline_ simulation, but a lonely endeavor since there is no interaction with other users at all. The focus is very much on management, piloting skills is more like an added bonus.

- The Skypark: very basic. It is just a random flight generator with a pretty user interface, it doesn't even do payload weights. The free random flight generator by Simbitworld does just as good a job.

- A Pilot's Life 2: great program, focuses on piloting skills and keeps you busy, I very much like it. However, it gets quite repetitive after a while, and you can get stuck in flying back and forward between two places in the same airplane (there are ways around that, but that's how it feels after a while if you play default)

That brings me to the option you haven't mentioned yet:

- Newsky.app: free, focuses on piloting skills and basic flight financials. Lots of VAs in it and user interactions. Currently my go-to economic simulation.

Peter

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

New sky is very good 

[Simjockey 29]

Have a look at Flight Sim Economy (FSE), it may just fit the bill and it is free to join.  The kind fellas on the board overseeing FSE have kept the program alive and as up-to-date as possible (the airfield database is based on FS9) by adding new stuff.  The purpose of FSE is to provide an economic engine which generates jobs (both passenger and cargo) from FBOs across the world to other FBOs.  Jobs are generated for a range of distances from local flights of 10s of miles to trans-ocean depending to some degree on the size of the airfield and hence FBO.

FSE is aimed at the 'Mom and Pop' type of GA operations or the VIP type of companies e.g. flying such aircraft as the FSR500.  The board have incorporated flying larger tin tubes within FSE but with the proviso that they can't be owned unlike the smaller GA pistons and turbo-props.  There is a role-playing element in that as a beginner in the economy, you can only hire the aircraft you want to fly but soon enough you'll have built up savings from the profits from your flights to purchase one or more (if you want) airframes of your choice.  In addition, you can purchase (or build on empty lots) FBOs if you fancy having your company based somewhere - the forum is full of sales and deal-making.

Just another option.

 

Regards.

[Little Jenny 317]

I use OnAir for my GA flying (have a small fleet of turboprops that I have located in various parts of the world).  Not a fan of the subscription model but it is what it is.  One thing I can say for OnAir is that it's constantly under development, so the money is being put to use (even though I don't plane on using the factories, etc).  

I also use A Pilots Life 2 for the airliners.  Haven't used it much but it's not a bad addon if that's your thing.  It will generate a schedule for you based on your airline and off you go.  I do believe you can fly your own routes too, if you wish (I just stick to the generated schedules).

[Ident 199]

I came from FSE (member for over 15 years). Theres a lot of love to be found in FSE as a community for the Pilot for Hire Part 135 owner/operator. I mean it is still so great to look at a planes logsbook and see what members have flown or own a particular airframe and all the places that plane has visited. I also believe in XPlane, one can create hotkeys or toggle switches to start and stop/log a flight without ever going outside of the sim. 

I have also always been a huge fan of the old FSPassengers as it offered so many things, still to this day, no other addon has. All that said, I've come to show all my attention to OnAir for my purpose to fly. I keep a small footprint on the business side of things and have worked my way up to flying pax with starting out flying cargo. I enjoy ferrying an extra pilot with me as so I can fly the leg(s) I want to and let him fly repo legs or ones that I dont. 

I appreciate air tours and flight seeing. Especially on PilotEdge and having to work with ATC to get the flight my customers are chartering. I just re upped my 2 year contract with OnAir and while I do like the banner towing and dispatch of NeoFly, I find the OnAir UI a lot more enjoyable to navigate.

[The Moose 1,178]

Don't bother with  Skypark, nothing more than a glorified mission generator.  Basic and no real progress with it from the devs since release.  Probably my biggest addon purchasing regret for the sim.

[RALF9636 1,998]

2 hours ago, Jazz said:

Having just looked on the Neofly website ... can I choose what I want to fly? I'm not prepared to fly a default cessna when I have an A2A Commanche and FSR500 in my hanger.

 

1 hour ago, qqwertz said:

- Neofly: good program, free, but a bit too gamey for me. Financials are unrealistic, and I don't like that I can't fly my favorite planes right from the start.

You can tweak the parameters of Neofly by editing the database. So for example you can change the aircraft in your hangar, allow higher loans to be taken or just give you more money. Or anything you can think of. So eventually you can use any aircraft you like from the start that way.

This explains how it is done (It still works in NeoFly 4; the database is now called std.bin.):

 

 

Since NeoFly is free, I suggest to take a deeper look.

I use NeoFly 4 all the time for my GA flying. Version 4 not only gives you all kinds of missions, it also allows free flights.

For airliners I use APL.

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by RALF9636

[Jazz 1,047]

45 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

You can tweak the parameters of Neofly by editing the database. So for example you can change the aircraft in your hangar, allow higher loans to be taken or just give you more money. Or anything you can think of. So eventually you can use any aircraft you like from the start that way.

This explains how it is done (It still works in NeoFly 4; the database is now called std.bin.):

Hmm, I just tried this and I can't get it to work. Neofly wants me to start with a Just Flight Warrior and I can't fly that anymore since the A2A Comanche released. I have no idea why it's insisting that I fly something I don't want to fly. So, I want to change my starting aircraft to the Comanche but I can't quite figure out how so I thought I would change my balance to buy a Comanche in the UI but things are different now to what is in that video. I found the "finances" part where the default figure is 5000 and changed that and wrote the changes it but it changed nothing in the UI. It's still 5000. Looking at the comments to that video he writes that the DB can't be changed in Neofly 4.

So now I'm confused. Can I or can't I? And if I can, how?

I really want to give this program a go but I'm not prepared to grind out however many hours in a plane I'm not remotely interested in flying. Why on earth frustrate the user at the first hurdle like this? I mean, of course I get the progression thing, It's a large part of the point but at least let me choose my first single engine piston rather than forcing me to suffer some dreadful default of some other plane I have long since moved on from. Bizarre design decision.

 

1 hour ago, The Moose said:

Don't bother with  Skypark, nothing more than a glorified mission generator.  Basic and no real progress with it from the devs since release.  Probably my biggest addon purchasing regret for the sim.

This is what I suspected. Thanks for clarifying.

 

2 hours ago, qqwertz said:

Newsky.app: free, focuses on piloting skills and basic flight financials. Lots of VAs in it and user interactions. Currently my go-to economic simulation.

I'll be giving this a look. Thank you.

 

2 hours ago, Simjockey said:

Have a look at Flight Sim Economy (FSE), it may just fit the bill and it is free to join

I will, cheers.

[MindYerBeak 73]

3 hours ago, Little Jenny said:

I use OnAir for..

 

Same here.I have all of them but onair is my favorite.It is continuosly updated and support is good.

[tjrush 55]

2 hours ago, Jazz said:

Hmm, I just tried this and I can't get it to work. Neofly wants me to start with a Just Flight Warrior and I can't fly that anymore since the A2A Comanche released. I have no idea why it's insisting that I fly something I don't want to fly. So, I want to change my starting aircraft to the Comanche but I can't quite figure out how so I thought I would change my balance to buy a Comanche in the UI but things are different now to what is in that video. I found the "finances" part where the default figure is 5000 and changed that and wrote the changes it but it changed nothing in the UI. It's still 5000. Looking at the comments to that video he writes that the DB can't be changed in Neofly 4.

So now I'm confused. Can I or can't I? And if I can, how?

I really want to give this program a go but I'm not prepared to grind out however many hours in a plane I'm not remotely interested in flying. Why on earth frustrate the user at the first hurdle like this? I mean, of course I get the progression thing, It's a large part of the point but at least let me choose my first single engine piston rather than forcing me to suffer some dreadful default of some other plane I have long since moved on from. Bizarre design decision.

 

This is what I suspected. Thanks for clarifying.

 

I'll be giving this a look. Thank you.

 

I will, cheers.

Jazz:  You should have no trouble flying the Comanche in Neofly.  What you do is sell the c152 and then rent the Comanche with the money you got from the sale.

 

[Jazz 1,047]

10 minutes ago, tjrush said:

Jazz:  You should have no trouble flying the Comanche in Neofly.  What you do is sell the c152 and then rent the Comanche with the money you got from the sale.

Yes, thank you, Tom. The thought crossed my mind when I shut the PC down earlier after giving the program a quick look but I wasn't sure if I owned the starting plane or not. I will give this a look tomorrow. I hope you're right. I'm sure you are.

[environmental_ice 242]

OnAir for me. The subscription isn't a big deal considering how much they update it and quality of life updates it gets. For the person that said he didn't have any flight attendants certified to fly his aircraft nothing is stopping you from hiring flight attendants that are certified so you didn't have to wait 3 days for anything. They are finally adding crash damage back which was the only thing I was missing about it that neofly has. OnAir you can get right into the airliners. If you want to fly heavies a quick type rating flight is required but then you will have it forever. A work around is to hire a pilot that is certified to fly heavies and just pick that pilot when starting flights. 
 

Neofly to me was just too clunky and I don't like the interface at all. AirHauler is just a spreadsheet to be honest. My grip with it is you can't create mega airlines. It will start running very slow once you get a good amount of scheduled flights added and you really aren't playing with anyone else overall. It's a solo addon. 
 

A pilots Life is fine. You can run it along side OnAir too. I'd like the dev to add more functions so pilots with higher rankings can have more control over the schedule. Hitting regenerate a million times feels archaic. 
 

NewSky looked cool but no general aviation aircraft. I like how I can fly GA in a C172 in OnAir for a job or just for pleasure. You don't have to actually be doing a job to use your aircraft. It looks like it's all airliner jets in newsky with some corporate general aviation jets as well.

I can't recommend FSEconomy. Way too dated and OnAir is just better at it. Also they have no airliner flying other than all in contracts with only the A320 and 737 with random routes. The Skypark has to be the worst choice in all of these programs. That was a complete waste of money. 

[Stearmandriver 2,332]

Neofly4 has a freelance mode where you can start wherever you like, in whatever airplane you like, and it'll generate appropriate missions.  Works great for controlling where and what you fly, much easier than selling, renting, editing etc.