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Ray Proudfoot

[Resolved] P3D v5.4 random lockups driving me mad

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I think I’ve discovered what has been causing P3D v5.4 to lockup at random intervals. On a flight from Manchester to Heathrow it occurred at the WCO NDB. On another from Sardinia to Athens it happened after a few minutes but after a couple of minutes the sim recovered and was fine for the rest of a two hour flight.

It next happened on a flight from Manchester to Schiphol just 2 miles out from landing.

The next time it happened as the wheels left the runway from Schiphol back to Manchester.

The last one occurred 40 mins into a flight from New Orleans to Monterrey, Mexico.

All happened with one aircraft - the PMDG737 NGXu. I’ve flown this aircraft for years on my old computer so knew it couldn’t be that.

What was different? I decided it was the very aggressive protection in Windows 11. My old computer ran Windows 10. I had to exclude multiple files, folders and file extensions to prevent a long pause when FSUIPC Autosave kicked in.

But this lockup was like nothing I’ve had in years of flying in Windows. I searched on how to turn off Virus Protection permanently and since doing so have completed three successful flights.

I run other software like Pollypot GIT and I suspect it was that Windows didn’t like. Rotating the knobs on the GoFlight MCP with protection on always had a lag to it like the exe was struggling to work.

With protection off it’s totally fluid. I’ve started a poll on the W11 forum as I’m curious how many have turned off this protection. I trust myself not to do anything daft on my flying computer. I’m sure I’m not alone in not requiring Microsoft’s nannying.

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Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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I have stepped back from Win 11 to Win10, and all folders related to P3D are set as 'excluded'.

 

Recently i have also discovered that XMP profiles for my memory is problematic, causing random CTD and sim instability. After disabling XMP all my problems gone 🙂

Edited by Beardyman

Artur 

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8 minutes ago, Beardyman said:

I have stepped back from Win 11 to Win10, and all folders related to P3D are set as 'excluded'.

Ultimately you will need to change once security updates end. To prevent pauses with Autosave I had to add quite a few exclusions listed here…

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/pmdg-737-ngxu-for-prepar3d-v4/273436-pauses-stutters-eliminated-with-fsuipc6-autosave


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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1 hour ago, Beardyman said:

I have stepped back from Win 11 to Win10, and all folders related to P3D are set as 'excluded'.

 

Recently i have also discovered that XMP profiles for my memory is problematic, causing random CTD and sim instability. After disabling XMP all my problems gone 🙂

Sounds like you're likely right on the ragged edge of the voltage needed to run stable at the manufacturer's XMP settings.  Im my experience, usually you can stabilize an iffy XMP profile by adding one or two hundredths of a volt to the manufacturer's voltage spec and set that Vdimm manually in the BIOS--motherboards aren't super-accurate w/r/t actual applied voltage vs what's sensed/reported by the mobo's hardware, so the voltage being applied via the XMP profile might be just a hair too low.

You might try that, and then run Memtest86+ through a 4-8 hour test cycle to verify stability.

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Bob Scott | President and CEO, AVSIM Inc
ATP Gulfstream II-III-IV-V

System1 (P3Dv5/v4): i9-13900KS @ 6.0GHz, water 2x360mm, ASUS Z790 Hero, 32GB GSkill 7800MHz CAS36, ASUS RTX4090
Samsung 55" JS8500 4K TV@30Hz,
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Fiber link to Yamaha RX-V467 Home Theater Receiver, Polk/Klipsch 6" bookshelf speakers, Polk 12" subwoofer, 12.9" iPad Pro
PFC yoke/throttle quad/pedals with custom Hall sensor retrofit, Thermaltake View 71 case, Stream Deck XL button box

Sys2 (MSFS/XPlane): i9-10900K @ 5.1GHz, 32GB 3600/15, nVidia RTX4090FE, Alienware AW3821DW 38" 21:9 GSync, EVGA 1000P2
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Portable Sys3 (P3Dv4/FSX/DCS): i9-9900K @ 5.0 Ghz, Noctua NH-D15, 32GB 3200/16, EVGA RTX3090, Dell S2417DG 24" GSync
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42 minutes ago, Bob Scott said:

Sounds like you're likely right on the ragged edge of the voltage needed to run stable at the manufacturer's XMP settings.  Im my experience, usually you can stabilize an iffy XMP profile by adding one or two hundredths of a volt to the manufacturer's voltage spec and set that Vdimm manually in the BIOS--motherboards aren't super-accurate w/r/t actual applied voltage vs what's sensed/reported by the mobo's hardware, so the voltage being applied via the XMP profile might be just a hair too low.

You might try that, and then run Memtest86+ through a 4-8 hour test cycle to verify stability.

Appreciate Bob, in case one day i feel a need to play with BIOS parameters then will be back to ur guidance.


Artur 

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@Ray Proudfoot,

EXACTLY what protections do you shut off, Ray?

Edited by Ray Proudfoot
Long quoted post removed

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8 hours ago, spilok said:

@Ray Proudfoot,

EXACTLY what protections do you shut off, Ray?

Virus Protection which is on by default. See here for details.

https://news.trendmicro.com/2022/12/14/how-to-turn-off-windows-defender/#


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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7 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Virus Protection which is on by default. See here for details.

https://news.trendmicro.com/2022/12/14/how-to-turn-off-windows-defender/#

Thanks, Ray.  I like the fact that you can turn it off temporarily following the instructions in that link.  The security turns back on automatically when you restart your computer.  Therefore, you can just do it before a flight and not worry after you restart.

Good tip.

Stan

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Stan, I thought about turning it off temporarily but decided it would become tiresome. I don't feel the need for such protection given my flight computer is connected via Ethernet and the router has a strong password.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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It's been very stable here in Win 11, but one important detail is that lately, just as it used to happen with Win 10, Wim11 turn really sensible when there's an update ready to be pushed into your system and installed.

Please check if that's not the case.


Main Simulation Rig:

Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti, 1 TB & 500 GB M.2 nvme drives, Win11.

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@jcomm, with the Pro version you can delay it by several days. I never had any issues with 10 with just a few exclusions and that was with a far less powerful computer than the one I have now.

Anyway, two more flights today and no lockups. It’s looking like it’s resolved.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@jcomm, with the Pro version you can delay it by several days. I never had any issues with 10 with just a few exclusions and that was with a far less powerful computer than the one I have now.

Anyway, two more flights today and no lockups. It’s looking like it’s resolved.

I had several flights today too...Krakow to Stuttgart, and a short one from Allentown, Pa to State College (KUNV).  BOTH flights were impeccably smooth and no pauses when I change rapidly from cockpit to wing view to outside view, etc.  That's when I especially got long pauses and hiccups.  

Great tip.  I will use the temporary shut off of Defender though, because my flight computer isn't exclusively used for my flight sims.  

Thanks again, Ray.

Stan

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3 minutes ago, spilok said:

BOTH flights were impeccably smooth and no pauses when I change rapidly from cockpit to wing view to outside view, etc.  That's when I especially got long pauses and hiccups.  

Stan, are you saying you had pauses with Virus protection enabled and they disappeared with it disabled? If so that’s very good news.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Stan, are you saying you had pauses with Virus protection enabled and they disappeared with it disabled? If so that’s very good news.

Yes.  That's what I'm saying.  I didn't get pauses every single time I switched views with VP on, but enough times to make it quite annoying. There were times when a pause stretched out to "much longer than a pause" as well.  I've only flown this VP OFF tweak today.  I will continue to fly it that way and will provide more feedback on how it is working.  My flights today were very, very enjoyable, I must say.

Stan

Edited by spilok
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After a few days of trouble-free flights I had another lockup 2 mins after taking off from Madrid today. Virus Protection is off. It locked the whole computer as even Task Manager wasn’t accessible.

After 2 mins P3D recovered but I decided to exit and restart with an autosave flight. The rest of the flight was fine.

But when the system recovered the whole P3D screen was flashing really violently. The desktop behind it was fine. Never seen that before. Anyone got any suggestions?

Could it be an over voltage issue or another hardware issue? It’s hard to think it’s a software one.

I’m not going to change anything for the next few flights or until it happens again. What I have found is there’s no benefit to running other executables on just a few LPs. I’ve found the GoFlight MCP is far more responsive when all cores are assigned rather than just a few. When you have 24 that’s enough to share the workload.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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