New to Ryzen 7 7800X3D and MSFS, match made in heaven!

[omarsmak30 4,068]

6 hours ago, Fielder said:

I'm probably getting better performance with a less able 3DX CPU because my GPU is a 4070 instead of 2600. But it certainly sounds like an older GPU can work fine business with that 7800X3D.

Indeed, for the first time, I am always GPU limited lol. I am planning to get the RTX4070ti Super with 16gb vram when is available which I think it would unlock this further

[Lange_666 167]

28 minutes ago, omarsmak30 said:

Sorry I am little bit lost, I have been watching YouTube videos trying to understand this, so now my PBO is set to Auto, do you refer the values of the curve optimizater? Now what I understood, this is reduces the voltage, but how does it translate to a better performance if the clock speed were lower? 

PBO to -xx (i have set mine to -30 for my 5800X3D) gives you a lower voltage (so in fact you're undervolting the CPU) which in turn gives you lower temps ans uses less power. You don't lower the clock speed.

[omarsmak30 4,068]

11 minutes ago, Lange_666 said:

PBO to -xx (i have set mine to -30 for my 5800X3D) gives you a lower voltage (so in fact you're undervolting the CPU) which in turn gives you lower temps ans uses less power. You don't lower the clock speed.

Interesting, I guess this has minimal effects on the performance?

[MikeH99 157]

So is my i5 13600k.

[threexgreen 3,152]

That huge L3 cache in the X3D chips is what makes the difference. You could even have lower speeds than with the newest Intel CPU and still get better performance. I was on team Intel ever since I started simming/gaming, but switched to AMD now given how it outperforms Intel at this point while scoring lower temps and wattage as well. The performance and efficiency in the X3D chips is astonishing and I saw a juicy performance improvement with my 7950X3D.

[Fielder 3,696]

Look for X on every box !

A Ryzen 3??? or 5??? is not going to be as good as 5???X or 3???X

Elon Musk renamed twitter to X.

Secret exciting new military planes are called X.

Treasure on maps is marked by X.

Next, look for the 3D !

 

 

 

[omarsmak30 4,068]

7 hours ago, Ixoye said:

I run mine at -30 PBO, works like a charm.

I went with -20 and then -30, cinebench scores went from 17181 to 18063 and temperatures look to be still manageable. Will do a test with MSFS to confirm though  

[Ixoye 1,828]

1 hour ago, omarsmak30 said:

I went with -20 and then -30, cinebench scores went from 17181 to 18063 and temperatures look to be still manageable. Will do a test with MSFS to confirm though  

You can try -40, some copies can handle that as well, but mine won't pass a 10 minute Cinebench without giving me blue screen from time to time at -40

Edited January 15 by Ixoye

[JetCat 108]

The Ryzen 7 3800X was already so fast compared to a Ryzen 5 2400G, (in the Flight Sim menu hangar every plane showed up instantly while it takes sometimes 3-5 secons to load with the Ryzen 5) I wonder which wonders a Ryzen 7 7800X might do...

Pre-owned is the price about ~350€ for this Ryzen 7 7800x3D beast, but again a BIOS-update will be necessary before installing it. I hate doing BIOS updates because such an update already failed one time in 2021 and the mainboard went to RMA because of this. Especially live-updating the BIOS is not as safe and fail-proof as they say 😉

[G MIDY 101]

 

4 hours ago, omarsmak30 said:

Interesting, I guess this has minimal effects on the performance?

The 7800X3D relies upon a curve which decides the current clock speed against the voltage needed to sustain that clock speed. If the CPU is worked hard then the CPU will try to boost to the maximum boost clock speed but this also demands the maximum voltage. Higher voltages mean higher temperatures and the CPU may eventually begin to downclock to control temperatures which means less performance.

A negative PBO offset is basically an undervolt of the voltage element of the curve where the CPU will instead try to boost to the maximum clock speed using less voltage. Because less voltage means less temperature, some level of increased performance is possible because the CPU is less likely to downclock due to lower temperatures.

So what is the limitation? Stability. As voltage is decreased CPU's eventually become unstable. This however really depends upon the silicon lottery as every CPU is different. I run around -25 negative PBO offset which seems to be my sweetspot, if I go beyond this then things start to go wrong and the level of instability begins to outweigh any gains.

I've found that the performance gains are variable, you'll barely notice them in MSFS but they can be really noticeable in benchmarks. It depends upon your intended use of the CPU but for the most part you aren't going to notice any difference in gaming vs stock. However, this doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. A negative PBO offset can really bring down overall temperatures and power usage so it's a good option even if the performance gains aren't really worth the effort.

If anyone does intend to get a 7800X3D then the cooling solution is by far the most important factor for the performance of the CPU alone. This isn't necessarily because the CPU is a hot CPU, it's more because reaching that maximum boost clock often is almost completely dependent on temperature. A negative PBO offset can really help but it won't beat a quality cooling solution.

To put it mildly on the 7800X3D, I won't be going back to Intel for a very long time. Whatever you do don't compare this CPU to what an Intel can achieve in synthetic benchmarks, the Intel will always win but with gaming and MSFS specifically the 7800X3D is king. 🙃

Edited January 15 by G MIDY

[omarsmak30 4,068]

46 minutes ago, G MIDY said:

So what is the limitation? Stability. As voltage is decreased CPU's eventually become unstable. This however really depends upon the silicon lottery as every CPU is different. I run around -25 negative PBO offset which seems to be my sweetspot, if I go beyond this then things start to go wrong and the level of instability begins to outweigh any gains.

Thank you for the detailed explanation, I was always with intel and their way of overclocking, I was very confused at first how does the undervolting with AMD works, but taking a step back, actually makes sense.

Now so far, I am running with -30 PBO offset and I think you are right, my cinebench results got a boost with the offset but MSFS, I can't really tell apart from my temperatures now look a bit cooled down in the avg of ~60-65 in contrast to before which was a bit hotter. But again, reading in reddit, looks like even 95c all day, is expected if you want to :D. 

Switching from Intel to AMD and seeing the incredible results in MSFS, Intel gotta push themselves hard to compete 😄

[omarsmak30 4,068]

1 hour ago, JetCat said:

but again a BIOS-update will be necessary before installing it

Oh yeah, I read in Reddit, bios update is really must for 7800x3d since the older bios versions had some issues with the voltage. Actually updating the bios is really easy (depending on the MB manufacturer, for MSI, create a usb-flash drive with the bios update, restart -> update) 

[BelgianTiger_2 22]

I'm planning the same upgrade actually with the same motherboard as well :). Was great reading this actually.
If i may ask,what did you chose as cooling? Air-cooled or AIO?Been reading a couple of threads and one suggest picking an AIO while the other mentions air-cooling is sufficient for this CPU.

[Donka 653]

I'm running a Noctua NH-U14S in a Phanteks Eclipse G500A case. This combination works fine for the 7800X3D along with a RTX4090. AIO or air are fine for this cpu, just select a good quality option of the one you prefer.

[Ixoye 1,828]

2 hours ago, JetCat said:

but again a BIOS-update will be necessary before installing it. I hate doing BIOS updates because such an update already failed one time in 2021 and the mainboard went to RMA because of this. Especially live-updating the BIOS is not as safe and fail-proof as they say 😉

The only thing you need to do if a BIOS update fails is to clear CMOS and reinstall BIOS again, how to proceed is described in the manual for all motherboards. and as the situation is right now with AMD 5 you have to update the BIOS to the latest AGESA version to get stability in the system, and it's a simple procedure that you perform with a USB stick on modern motherboards while the computer is switched off.

Edited January 15 by Ixoye