noel  I forgot.  DX11 or 12 for your method?  I once was going to try it, but stopped because I didn't have a gsync monitor.  Now I do

55 minutes ago, Noel said:

I have many times Cowboy, only to be attacked or ridiculed by people who believe frame rate is all that matters--but I know they have not witnessed what I refer to as in 30y of doing this not once did anyone mention the method and I thought I had liquid smooth animation for years until I came upon this method, else they would dispense w/ the ridicule.  A few people tried it themselves and found the best results ever for them.  The basics are in my sig...

I know how you feel. I've been on the receiving end of similar ridicule for using 4KTV frame interpolation for frame generation and like you I've been doing this for 30 year and recall the 1/2 refresh rate method we used to use in FSX etc.🤣 I came across the frame interpolation trick by accident while trying to tune my system at the time for stutter free 30fps from P3D V3 probably. Couldn't do it to my satisfaction. Decided to try 24fps and to my astonishment the image was perfectly fluid and smooth and didn't have the slight ghosting normally associated with panning at 30fps. Eventually, I figured out the TV was detecting a 24hz signal and automatically enabling Frame interpolation for 48fps on screen.

What a find! Still using it to this day at 23 and 29hz and the low associated hardware load for an exceptionally 46 and 58fps on screen. I've made a few converts over the years but not many.

I'm interested to see it your technique can be combines with mine since I saw your CapFrameX graph with perfect frame time. Very impressive! I wonder does your method require Gsync or Freesync display? Or will it work with Vsync? If so let me know and if you don't want to post the method here I can PM you.

EDIT: Ah I see from previous post it requires a Gsync Monitor! 😭

Edited January 20, 20242 yr by FBW737

56 minutes ago, FBW737 said:

I know how you feel. I've been on the receiving end of similar ridicule for using 4KTV frame interpolation for frame generation and like you I've been doing this for 30 year and recall the 1/2 refresh rate method we used to use in FSX etc.🤣 I came across the frame interpolation trick by accident while trying to tune my system at the time for stutter free 30fps from P3D V3 probably. Couldn't do it to my satisfaction. Decided to try 24fps and to my astonishment the image was perfectly fluid and smooth and didn't have the slight ghosting normally associated with panning at 30fps. Eventually, I figured out the TV was detecting a 24hz signal and automatically enabling Frame interpolation for 48fps on screen.

What a find! Still using it to this day at 23 and 29hz and the low associated hardware load for an exceptionally 46 and 58fps on screen. I've made a few converts over the years but not many.

I'm interested to see it your technique can be combines with mine since I saw your CapFrameX graph with perfect frame time. Very impressive! I wonder does your method require Gsync or Freesync display? Or will it work with Vsync? If so let me know and if you don't want to post the method here I can PM you.

EDIT: Ah I see from previous post it requires a Gsync Monitor! 😭

Yep, old beliefs die hard.  The Gsync display happened to greatly reduce an artifact that happened w/ my old non Gsync display using the method I use for sync/lock.  I sometimes see a little of it w/ the Gsync display but its very minimal.  Until I got the display I was so impressed w/ the subjective sense of smooth that I just put up with it and as I say fortunately the Gsync display resolve 85% of it.  Of note, I did not know anything about the value of FTV--I stumbled on this method of sync/lock and it was old CptPiett who turned me on to CFX well after I had been using the method.  I remember reading someone's comment about this method on I think it was Reddit, that it generated unbelievably smooth animation in some other game, not FS if I recall.  So tried it and noticed by careful scrutiny it was the best of all methods for smoothing animation.  It DOES NOT, unfortunately, fix insufficient hardware for settings, but when you're dialed in well within your hardware's capability it's great.  

Of note, I am re-trying the FG hack now and decided why not try my own method for sync/lock, and skip setting Vsync in NVCP.  It's quite good!   Did not solve the 2D ghosting which happens in the -zStats and ATC windows, so they can be minimized or hidden.  I did just try to open an gauge using the Rt Alt plus click on the 2D window and got the GPU error and crashed the program.  But the good news is the jittery panning and flickering outside is gone.  So I'm guessing it's a matter of time before that one piece is solved at which point it will be a very nice addition.  Now only if it couldn't double VRAM 😉

1 hour ago, micstatic said:

noel  I forgot.  DX11 or 12 for your method?  I once was going to try it, but stopped because I didn't have a gsync monitor.  Now I do

Doesn't matter, either is the same.  I use DX12 all the time now.  I was using HAGS w/o the FG mod but I'm pretty sure it was it that cause a subtle but consistent tiny stutter evenly spaced about 0.5 sec apart, visible when looking out the side window during taxi for example, so had turned it back off.  So it's back on now but haven't had a chance to look for this pulsing stutter, subtle as it is.

Of note, you want to enter the doubled value in RTSS, so for frame rate of 70, enter 70, and actual will be 35.  

Edited January 20, 20242 yr by Noel

8 minutes ago, Noel said:

Doesn't matter, either is the same.  I use DX12 all the time now.  I was using HAGS w/o the FG mod but I'm pretty sure it was it that cause a subtle but consistent tiny stutter evenly spaced about 0.5 sec apart, visible when looking out the side window during taxi for example, so had turned it back off.

Hmmm! I noticed that stutter too which I though was as a result of the FG mod. Prior to which I had HAGS off. I'm gonna go back to hags off and see how that goes.

I do not set a frame limit. The diversity of hardware is so large that it's really hard to understand whether something might work or not on any given configuration. One day I'll work up the ambition to try the dynamic LOD app, although as you suggest, it's really hard to get motivated if one is reasonably satisfied with the way one's rig is working.

19 minutes ago, FBW737 said:

Hmmm! I noticed that stutter too which I though was as a result of the FG mod. Prior to which I had HAGS off. I'm gonna go back to hags off and see how that goes.

FWIW, w/ FG mod installed which requires HAGS on to work, I'm not seeing the stutter.  Opening a gauge or glass display crashes MSFS w/ the FG mod installed.  It's DX12 though and maybe that, or HAGS, is involved w/ this.

It's worth a flight at this point, the FG mod.  One other graphical issue is when I make my 2nd display active (it's where I'm typing now) frame rate drops and big stutters happen on the main display, and that does not happen w/o the FG mod.  All in all though, those things can be coped with so yes I'll do my next flight with the FG mod and remember not to open one of avoinics popups.

Edited January 20, 20242 yr by Noel

FG have become needlessly for me since the Dynamic Lod came true.

Noel, so its basically RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Edge Sync thats doing the trick?

 

P.S. As for framerate  I don't even know what mine is. I've never looked and don't care. I just judge with my eyes

So understand what you mean I think.

Edited January 20, 20242 yr by Lonesome Cowboy Burt

52 minutes ago, Lonesome Cowboy Burt said:

Noel, so its basically RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Edge Sync thats doing the trick?

 

P.S. As for framerate  I don't even know what mine is. I've never looked and don't care. I just judge with my eyes

So understand what you mean I think.

Yep, that's most of it.  Read thru the rest here and these are parts of the process as well.  Remember:  you must be setup so that your CPU and GPU are never overloaded.  Neither this method nor frame generation solve that, and with both the key is to set the rate to where your hardware can cope w/o a stutter.  DynamicLOD will help improve the picture some for sure so that is also recommended.  It will allow you to use a very low Terrain LOD while on the ground going in or out of demanding airports.  Use the cool trick towards the end of my post to assign the frame lock to a key so you can raise and lower the lock.   

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/628655-ultimate-smoothness-at-modest-frame-rates/?do=findComment&comment=4899096

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Noel said:

I leave the ATC "window" open though can minimize it to just the top line, so it's a window that is subject to SEVERE ghosting with any kind of zoom or panning.

You’re correct that menus have issues in the sim with FG mod, but not everyone uses them. I don’t. No problems whatsoever on my end. So it depends on what you’re doing. 

5 hours ago, Lonesome Cowboy Burt said:

That's a helluva claim there Noel, care to share this on the board so all can benefit?

 

5 hours ago, JYW said:

I concur with Noel.   I have a 3080Ti and tried the hack excitedly.  Yes, the FPS shoot up, but the ghosting, panning jitters and other artifacts were really bad - especially for a TrackIR user.

I look forward to the development of the tech, and perhaps getting 'proper' FG for 20/30 cards in the future.  But at the present time, I could simply never have stuck with that hack.  High FPS but really bad, ghosty, jittery visuals is just no good.

Try it with the video I just posted. I have a 3080ti and with that method and frame gen it’s as smooth as it could possibly be. 

17 minutes ago, mryan75 said:

Try it with the video I just posted. I have a 3080ti and with that method and frame gen it’s as smooth as it could possibly be. 

My sync/lock method w/ the FG mod was great as it got rid of a couple of problems w/ near field flickering as well as panning that happened using NVCP Vsync, or wide open w/o any locks.  I minimize the ATC window when not in use.  When minimized the ATC upper window bar sits upper left part of my display so don't see it anyway plus there is no text which makes the ghosting more apparent.  As well I use ShiftZ stats or whatever it's called and its text is vulnerable to ghosting.  I don't open glass cockpit 2D popups very often--they cause a CTD of MSFS.  Fortunately there are only two other anomalies w/ the FG mod:  1, When my mouse has clicked on my other display, which I do nearly constantly, setup as an extended display out of the mainboard's graphics port, then go back to my main display there is a big judder, kind of a whole screen ghosting as it were.  It's not a show stopper for using the FG mod, but it's a detriment for sure.  

One other feature that is very useful w/ FG mod or Nvidia FG is in the worst of the worst scenarios you can drop the doubled rated to 40 w/ normal rate of 20 fps, so this give major headroom as well in the CPU in my case.  So able to get to gate at SFO in modest weather at 20 FPS with everything maxed in the FBW 320NX, but remains fluid with no stutters, except perhaps where my VRAM got a little too close to saturated, I got one stutter.  All in all, very nice mod.  Because of the VRAM issue with my next build will end up going RTX4000.  My current GPU handles everything except VRAM very well.  When making a sharp turn at KSFO into my gate I had the one hiccough, and I had the TLOD at 40 (DynamicLOD).  I don't think this is CPU nor GPU issue per se think it's more of an issue w/ VRAM memory bus.  RTX4090 has the widest bus I think perhaps significantly more than RTX4080 w/ it's 16Gb but narrower bus.  So will probably go there, 4090.  I won't do this until MSFS 2024 arrives because with the major changes coming could be there really will be no need to get more VRAM, nor more CPU.  Or not, we'll see!

Glad to see you got it sorted Noel. The gosting on 2d panels is, as you said, easily solved by using a second monitor. It takes a frame hit, but this mod gives so much headroom in fps, that it is negligible.

Edited January 21, 20242 yr by petejohno1

3 hours ago, Noel said:

because with the major changes coming could be there really will be no need to get more VRAM, nor more CPU.

I completely agree with this. I think performance is going to remarkably better.  This is 20-year old code. What GPU do you have again? I have a 3080ti and I think it’s the sweet spot for price and performance. I’m really looking forward to 2024. 

The few things that make things much different for you and I as far as the ghosting goes is that I fly on Vatsim, so no open menus on screen ever, save for Sim Brief panel briefly when I’m I putting my flight plan; and I have no second screen, I use an iPad for Vatscope, Navigraph, etc.