How to get the best image quality using DLDSR+DLSS

[Cpt_Piett 4,673]

Deleted

Edited March 27 by Cpt_Piett

[Eziocin 46]

Great discussion here and a great contribution to a better and better sim experience.... I just want to share my recent experience. I have a Ryzen 7800X3D paired with an Asus RTX4090 and a 21:9 Ultrawide 3440x1440 60hz monitor..

I have tested the DLDSR 2.25x option + DLSS Quality.... vs just DLSS Ultra Quality.... Frame generation enabled in both cases... nvngx_dlssg and nvngx_dlss updated to 3.6 version..  all MSFS settings to Ultra and TLOD/OLOD 150.....no question about the performance in terms of FPS...in both cases the FPS and Image quality are great, but.... I need to enable Vsync (through Nvidia Inspector) to avoid screen tearing (and doing so I have my FPS capped to 60), and every time the FPS drop below 60, even just around 56 or so, I have got heavy stuttering... this is particularly occurring  in cases such as Inibuilds EGLL, with Vatsim traffic, using Fenix, where I have fps ranging from 45 to 57.. the only way to have a perfectly smooth sim also in those conditions is to set my monitor refresh rate to 30hz and use Adaptive Vsync 1/2 refresh rate...this caps the FPS to 30 and everything is perfectly smooth even in the heaviest conditions, and visually stunning. I know that most people will scream that it is meaningless to have such hardware to run at 30 fps, but whoever has experienced this has realized that 30 FPS smooth, and I repeat again "smooth", is the sweet spot for heavy addon scenarios and aircraft in MSFS.

Having said that, I have made three flights in the last few days, one with just DLSS Ultra Quality, and two with DLDSR 2.25 + DLSS Quality, and while the first one was successful, both the ones with DLDSR, although giving a slightly better visual quality, ended up with a screen freeze and a video driver error message.

So to summarise my experience so far: DLSS Ultra Quality great performance and visuals..... DLDSR+DLSS Quality similar performance, with slightly better visuals but still some fine tuning to be done to avoid issues... I will need to build up a more significant number of test flights.

Ezio

Edited March 28 by Eziocin

[tfm 169]

1 hour ago, Eziocin said:

Great discussion here and a great contribution to a better and better sim experience.... I just want to share my recent experience. I have a Ryzen 7800X3D paired with an Asus RTX4090 and a 21:9 Ultrawide 3440x1440 60hz monitor..

I have tested the DLDSR 2.25x option + DLSS Quality.... vs just DLSS Ultra Quality.... Frame generation enabled in both cases... nvngx_dlssg and nvngx_dlss updated to 3.6 version..  all MSFS settings to Ultra and TLOD/OLOD 150.....no question about the performance in terms of FPS...in both cases the FPS and Image quality are great, but.... I need to enable Vsync (through Nvidia Inspector) to avoid screen tearing (and doing so I have my FPS capped to 60), and every time the FPS drop below 60, even just around 56 or so, I have got heavy stuttering... this is particularly occurring  in cases such as Inibuilds EGLL, with Vatsim traffic, using Fenix, where I have fps ranging from 45 to 57.. the only way to have a perfectly smooth sim also in those conditions is to set my monitor refresh rate to 30hz and use Adaptive Vsync 1/2 refresh rate...this caps the FPS to 30 and everything is perfectly smooth even in the heaviest conditions, and visually stunning. I know that most people will scream that it is meaningless to have such hardware to run at 30 fps, but whoever has experienced this has realized that 30 FPS smooth, and I repeat again "smooth", is the sweet spot for heavy addon scenarios and aircraft in MSFS.

Having said that, I have made three flights in the last few days, one with just DLSS Ultra Quality, and two with DLDSR 2.25 + DLSS Quality, and while the first one was successful, both the ones with DLDSR, although giving a slightly better visual quality, ended up with a screen freeze and a video driver error message.

So to summarise my experience so far: DLSS Ultra Quality great performance and visuals..... DLDSR+DLSS Quality similar performance, with slightly better visuals but still some fine tuning to be done to avoid issues... I will need to build up a more significant number of test flights.

Ezio

Do you have a gsync monitor? I recently went from a 27” screen to 32”. I bought it for the extra size but it comes with gsync upto 144fps.

This has eliminated whatever tearing was previously present on my system (not that I’ve ever regarded it as a big issue anyway).

(This is on 4k gsync, 4090, 12900ks now 14900ks)

[Eziocin 46]

No...no G Sync monitor...in the plans for the future, but not at the moment...

[Cpt_Piett 4,673]

5 hours ago, Eziocin said:

I have tested the DLDSR 2.25x option + DLSS Quality.... vs just DLSS Ultra Quality.... Frame generation enabled in both cases... nvngx_dlssg and nvngx_dlss updated to 3.6 version..  all MSFS settings to Ultra and TLOD/OLOD 150.....no question about the performance in terms of FPS...in both cases the FPS and Image quality are great, but.... I need to enable Vsync (through Nvidia Inspector) to avoid screen tearing (and doing so I have my FPS capped to 60), and every time the FPS drop below 60, even just around 56 or so, I have got heavy stuttering... this is particularly occurring  in cases such as Inibuilds EGLL, with Vatsim traffic, using Fenix, where I have fps ranging from 45 to 57.. the only way to have a perfectly smooth sim also in those conditions is to set my monitor refresh rate to 30hz and use Adaptive Vsync 1/2 refresh rate...this caps the FPS to 30 and everything is perfectly smooth even in the heaviest conditions, and visually stunning. I know that most people will scream that it is meaningless to have such hardware to run at 30 fps, but whoever has experienced this has realized that 30 FPS smooth, and I repeat again "smooth", is the sweet spot for heavy addon scenarios and aircraft in MSFS.

Very interesting to hear about your experience with DLSS+DLDSR. And that you get heavy stuttering below FPS 60. I start to get stuttering below FG-FPS 60, but it needs to be a lot lower before I get heavy stutters. 

Also interesting that capping FPS at 30 solved your stutter-issue. But this has to be without frame generation, yes? Otherwise it would mean native 15 FPS which I would think is way to low for FG to work properly. I'd like to try this, just to see how it works, e.g. into iniBuilds EGLL. I'm using RTSS to cap FPS though.

5 hours ago, Eziocin said:

Having said that, I have made three flights in the last few days, one with just DLSS Ultra Quality, and two with DLDSR 2.25 + DLSS Quality, and while the first one was successful, both the ones with DLDSR, although giving a slightly better visual quality, ended up with a screen freeze and a video driver error message.

I quickly realized that DLDSR 2.25x was too heavy on my 4090. 1.78x was borderline okay, but the 4090 was running at a 99-100% constant load. So I've since gone back to 4K. Although the image quality is (slightly) better at upscaled resolutions, the performance impact is not worth it for me. 

5 hours ago, Eziocin said:

So to summarise my experience so far: DLSS Ultra Quality great performance and visuals..... DLDSR+DLSS Quality similar performance, with slightly better visuals but still some fine tuning to be done to avoid issues... I will need to build up a more significant number of test flights.

It's been a while since I started this thread and I've experimented a lot since then. For the last few days I've been using DLSS+DLAA, giving the (in my opinion) best antialiasing techniques and image quality, with almost no shimmering, aliasing or blurring. This combination involves no downscaling, which I realized I don't need anyway, as I've got more than enough headroom with my 4090. So I basically went from DLSS ultra quality (0.80x native resolution) to DLSS+DLAA (1.0x native). 

[Eziocin 46]

6 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

 

Also interesting that capping FPS at 30 solved your stutter-issue. But this has to be without frame generation, yes? Otherwise it would mean native 15 FPS which I would think is way to low for FG to work properly. I'd like to try this, just to see how it works, e.g. into iniBuilds EGLL. I'm using RTSS to cap FPS though.

Actually this is strange and I am struggling to understand the rationale of what happens: at upscaled resolutions the 1/2 refresh rate Vsync doesn’ t work, that is even if I select it in Nvidia Insoector I only have the full vsync active which caps the FPS to the 60 native monitor resolution… but if I lower the monitor refresh rate to 30 then the 1/2 refresh rate kicks in and caps the frame at 30…have no idea why this happens.. and the other interesting thing (maybe that’ s obvious) I have found is that once the frames are capped the consequence is that the GPU load drops significantly (most likely because less frames needs to be rendered)… from 95% to 60% roughly..

in both cases I have Frame Generation ON, and it works, not doubling the frames of course, but giving that extra boost which allows me to keep 30 Frames… with FG OFF the performance decay is noticeable..

one curious thing happened today: at Inibuilds EGLL, departing from Terminal 5 with all the T5 stands busy with Vatsim traffic (FSTL aircraft), with DLDSR @1.75 and DLSS quality, normal Vsync (not 1/2 rr), I had stable 55-57 fps at all time from flight preparation, to push back, taxi and take off, with almost no stutter whatsover.. the only difference vs previous flights was that I didn’ t use GSX…. Didn’ t have the time for another test, but that’s an interesting clue…

more to come with further tests..

cheers

 

ezio

 

Edited March 28 by Eziocin

[iliasr 41]

another option:

The holy grail is DSR 2.25 and DLSS 3.6 set your resolution, to the highest it will go in the sim and set DLSS to Performance, Direct X 11, and max everything out in the sim and enjoy. No Frame generation TLOD mods or tweaking necessary. You still get microstutters which at this point I don't think you can get rid of until the next update when Asobo fixes the memory issues in the sim, but any DLSS blurriness or ghosting is gone and you will have incredible FPS. I am running my sim with 8K+ resolution everything maxed out in the sim and getting 60+ FPS using a 3080ti on a i7 12th gen CPU. The key is DSR post processes on the CPU and DLSS Post processes on the GPU which spreads out the workload between the CPU and GPU and your computer runs cooler and more efficiently. I am not on the BETA

[Eziocin 46]

4 minutes ago, iliasr said:

The holy grail is DSR 2.25 and DLSS 3.6 set your resolution, to the highest it will go in the sim and set DLSS to Performance, Direct X 11, and max everything out in the sim and enjoy. No Frame generation TLOD mods or tweaking necessary. You still get microstutters which at this point I don't think you can get rid of until the next update when Asobo fixes the memory issues in the sim, but any DLSS blurriness or ghosting is gone and you will have incredible FPS. I am running my sim with 8K+ resolution everything maxed out in the sim and getting 60+ FPS using a 3080ti on a i7 12th gen CPU. The key is DSR post processes on the CPU and DLSS Post processes on the GPU which spreads out the workload between the CPU and GPU and your computer runs cooler and more efficiently. I am not on the BETA

Thanks for the advice… will try it as soon as I will be back in front if my Sim PC, that is after Easter…☹️

I am not on Beta either..

[Cpt_Piett 4,673]

1 hour ago, iliasr said:

I am running my sim with 8K+ resolution everything maxed out in the sim and getting 60+ FPS using a 3080ti on a i7 12th gen CPU. The key is DSR post processes on the CPU and DLSS Post processes on the GPU which spreads out the workload between the CPU and GPU and your computer runs cooler and more efficiently. I am not on the BETA

Interesting. And I guess you need to use DLSS performance to be able to render at 8K+? How do you put DSR post process on the CPU and DLSS post process on the GPU?

[iliasr 41]

1 hour ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Interesting. And I guess you need to use DLSS performance to be able to render at 8K+? How do you put DSR post process on the CPU and DLSS post process on the GPU?

you're right, it was found online as an option, it's not my text, he probably mistyped it

[Mace 1,928]

13 hours ago, Eziocin said:

Great discussion here and a great contribution to a better and better sim experience.... I just want to share my recent experience. I have a Ryzen 7800X3D paired with an Asus RTX4090 and a 21:9 Ultrawide 3440x1440 60hz monitor..

I have tested the DLDSR 2.25x option + DLSS Quality.... vs just DLSS Ultra Quality.... Frame generation enabled in both cases... nvngx_dlssg and nvngx_dlss updated to 3.6 version..  all MSFS settings to Ultra and TLOD/OLOD 150.....no question about the performance in terms of FPS...in both cases the FPS and Image quality are great, but.... I need to enable Vsync (through Nvidia Inspector) to avoid screen tearing (and doing so I have my FPS capped to 60), and every time the FPS drop below 60, even just around 56 or so, I have got heavy stuttering... this is particularly occurring  in cases such as Inibuilds EGLL, with Vatsim traffic, using Fenix, where I have fps ranging from 45 to 57.. the only way to have a perfectly smooth sim also in those conditions is to set my monitor refresh rate to 30hz and use Adaptive Vsync 1/2 refresh rate...this caps the FPS to 30 and everything is perfectly smooth even in the heaviest conditions, and visually stunning.

That is so strange.  I too have a 7800X3D with a Gigabyte 4090, although I'm running a 4K display at 60hz -- and I do not have any tearing whatsoever with NVCP vsync on.

Nor do I have any stutter below 60 fps.

I run vsync ON in the NVCP, and off in the sim.   Ultra settings with a TLOD fixed at 200.  I am now running the DLSS Ultra Quality mode and find it looks about as sharp as TAA (I can't tell any difference).  I did take @David Mills post to heart though, about TAA -- I think I did have my AMD sharpening higher than 70 and that might be why I had a bit of shimmer with TAA, that I don't have with DLSS Ultra Quality -- although I think I tested with sharpening one time and couldn't eliminate the TAA shimmer no matter how low I set sharpening.  But I may (re)-experiment with TAA and lower sharpening settings too.  On my rig TAA is pretty close to DLSS Ultra Quality too, in terms of performance and Image Quality (IQ) although I suspect that's because I can brute-force a lot with the 7800X3D doing its voodoo magic.

If I turn off vsync then THAT'S when I get tearing and stuttering.  I always thought the whole purpose of vsync was to prevent screen tearing and that is certainly true of my current setup.   That is why it is so strange that you're getting tearing and stutter below 60 fps, although if you're turning off vsync and using a hard cap then I can see why you might get screen tearing.  I ran a hard cap for a while too, but I couldn't dial out the tearing no matter what other settings I went with.  On my system I am almost forced to use vsync to avoid tearing.

[Vali 83]

4 hours ago, iliasr said:

another option:

The holy grail is DSR 2.25 and DLSS 3.6 set your resolution, to the highest it will go in the sim and set DLSS to Performance, Direct X 11, and max everything out in the sim and enjoy. No Frame generation TLOD mods or tweaking necessary. You still get microstutters which at this point I don't think you can get rid of until the next update when Asobo fixes the memory issues in the sim, but any DLSS blurriness or ghosting is gone and you will have incredible FPS. I am running my sim with 8K+ resolution everything maxed out in the sim and getting 60+ FPS using a 3080ti on a i7 12th gen CPU. The key is DSR post processes on the CPU and DLSS Post processes on the GPU which spreads out the workload between the CPU and GPU and your computer runs cooler and more efficiently. I am not on the BETA

And do you use Vsync or NVCP frame limit? 

[iliasr 41]

7 minutes ago, Vali said:

And do you use Vsync or NVCP frame limit? 

NVCP is always recommended ... i think

[Vali 83]

6 minutes ago, iliasr said:

NVCP is always recommended ... i think

I did a short test, with "DSR 2.25 and DLSS 3.6 set your resolution, to the highest it will go in the sim and set DLSS to Performance, Direct X 11, and max everything out in the sim" and also 3080 TI I get on my side around 40fps but not 60fps+

[Eziocin 46]

56 minutes ago, Mace said:

 That is why it is so strange that you're getting tearing and stutter below 60 fps, although if you're turning off vsync and using a hard cap then I can see why you might get screen tearing.

No, this is not what I do...let me clarify: I ALWAYS use Vsync, because it is the only way to avoid screen tearing unless you have a G Sync monitor or similar, which is not my case. To put it simple the Vsync avoids screen tearing by synchronizing the rendered frames with the monitor refresh rate... so in a 60hz monitor the Vsync will ideally sync the frames at 60 fps, provided that the system is capable of delivering 60 fps. If the actual fps are higher than 60 then the Vsync will cap fps at 60 (there is no need to use a hard cap at 60 fps in this case), but if they are lower, there is no way they can be syncd at 60, and in that case the Vsync will anyway continue to avoid tearing but stutters may occur depending on how large the gap between the Sim fps and the monitor refresh rate is. Here is the benefit of the "1/2 Refresh rate Vsync": it syncs the frame with half of the monitor refresh rate, so in a 60 hz monitor, if the system is able to deliver at least 30 fps, then the result will be a perfectly smooth, stutter free 30 fps rendering.  What happens in my case is that even if I select "1/2 refresh rate Vsync" in NVCP, whenever I increase the monitor native resolution using DSR either 2.25 or 1.75, the "1/2 refresh rate" feature doesn't work, and Vsync continues to work as a standard Vsync, that is trying to sync at 60 fps, and in heavy scenarios, my system is not always able to provide stable 60 fps, and here is where the stutters come from, at least this is my conclusion.... for the time being... however, it is good to know that with my same hardware and my same MSFS settings you don't have this issue...in the end, I have built my rig just very recently, so maybe I still need to fine tune some settings...