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El Diablito

Full REV / Rev Idle - A320

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I was wondering what are people's choice here when flying the A320.

If you use Rev Idle, when do you activate? When in the flare or beforehand? I'm wondering how this will affect the landing in the Fenix.

I just recently found out that full reverse, depending on the airline of course, is seldom used outside of very specific conditions such as weather or rw length for example.

I've always found that there's not much of a rollout in the sim and the bite of the brakes and reverse combo slows you down in no time.


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Posted (edited)

Reverse selection is only after touchdown. All modern airliners have interlocks preventing the selection of reverse when airborne.

Also of note is that modern airliners target a deceleration rate based on the autobrake setting. If you selected autobrake low and full reverse for example, the brakes effectively wouldn’t activate at all because the deceleration from the reverse thrust alone would satisfy the deceleration rate demand. 

Full reverse is normally used either to observe brake temperature concerns, or if the runway state is such that the braking action will be unsatisfactory. It’s also required by certain airlines if you have a brake unservicability or if you’ve had to increase your approach speed because of a technical failure. 

Edited by 2reds2whites
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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, El Diablito said:

I was wondering what are people's choice here when flying the A320.

If you use Rev Idle, when do you activate? When in the flare or beforehand? I'm wondering how this will affect the landing in the Fenix.

I just recently found out that full reverse, depending on the airline of course, is seldom used outside of very specific conditions such as weather or rw length for example.

I've always found that there's not much of a rollout in the sim and the bite of the brakes and reverse combo slows you down in no time.

Yeah, the ground friction in the sim is beyond reasonable. No one in MSFS has to fear overrunning the runway, it's really a shame they haven't improved that in 4 years.

Your other question was already answered. Idle reverse after main gears touchdown and then either full reverse or staying in idle reverse. This varys wildly between airlines and regions. Here in Frankfurt EDDF it's forbidden to use anything else than idle reverse (-> noise) unless for safety reasons. Every once in a while I can hear a full reverse from where I'm living (it's a about 8 miles away from the airport), it's that loud. Most of the time it's a 747 freighter floating for too long during flare (have seen it so often at the airport...).
On the other hand e.g. Ryanair on its in-the-middle-of-nowhere-cheap-airports uses full reverse all the time, in order to have the brakes cool enough for their (inhuman) 25 minute turnaround time. Also in the US full reverse apparently is the norm, not the exception.
There was a debate some time ago between the bean counters whatever costs more: The wear on the engines on full reverse or the wear on the brakes without full reverse. I think the brakes won.

Edited by Fiorentoni
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1 hour ago, 2reds2whites said:

Reverse selection is only after touchdown. All modern airliners have interlocks preventing the selection of reverse when airborne.

Also of note is that modern airliners target a deceleration rate based on the autobrake setting. If you selected autobrake low and full reverse for example, the brakes effectively wouldn’t activate at all because the deceleration from the reverse thrust alone would satisfy the deceleration rate demand. 

Full reverse is normally used either to observe brake temperature concerns, or if the runway state is such that the braking action will be unsatisfactory. It’s also required by certain airlines if you have a brake unservicability or if you’ve had to increase your approach speed because of a technical failure. 

Hmmm....I just posted question on another thread regarding this....Not sure I understand this....I have not used TR at all...Regardless of runway length. Can you clarify this? If AB is used either LOW or MED is TR required? With PMDG there is no way I would be able to stop the plane without TR. With Airbus I am not even using it. I regularly observe A320 landing and every single one is using on every runway.... 


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2 minutes ago, cyyzrwy24 said:

Hmmm....I just posted question on another thread regarding this....Not sure I understand this....I have not used TR at all...Regardless of runway length. Can you clarify this? If AB is used either LOW or MED is TR required? With PMDG there is no way I would be able to stop the plane without TR. With Airbus I am not even using it. I regularly observe A320 landing and every single one is using on every runway.... 

You always use idle reverse - the only question is whether you use full reverse.

Whether full reverse is required for any autobrake setting is a function of the brake temperature and runway state - but you always use idle reverse as a minimum. 

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17 minutes ago, 2reds2whites said:

You always use idle reverse - the only question is whether you use full reverse.

Whether full reverse is required for any autobrake setting is a function of the brake temperature and runway state - but you always use idle reverse as a minimum. 

That's what I am using basically....So TR I haven't used at all. Interesting, because 737 doesn't slow that easy.....


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I always seem to slip into full reverse anyway because there's no detent for idle reverse.

Thanks for the info, everyone.


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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, cyyzrwy24 said:

That's what I am using basically....So TR I haven't used at all. Interesting, because 737 doesn't slow that easy.....

The 737 definitely slows just fine on idle reverse. Just don't use AB1 unless you're very low on weight and slow or have a long runway with the terminal at the end, because AB1 barely brakes. At Southwest for example, AB1 isn't used at all. The 737-800 and 900 also have higher approach speeds than an A320.

Use 2 or 3 for landing and 1 only in fringe cases.

Edit: Idle reverse cancels the residual forward thrust on forward idle, which you don't want on rollout.

Edited by threexgreen

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11 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

Yeah, the ground friction in the sim is beyond reasonable. No one in MSFS has to fear overrunning the runway, it's really a shame they haven't improved that in 4 years.....

This is the reason why I use the thrust reversers only on my PMDG 737-600 down to 70 knots, and then use the brakes. It gives me a far more realistic rollout. Needless to say, the deceleration from 70 knots to taxi speed using those brakes is very quick.


Christopher Low

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2 hours ago, El Diablito said:

I always seem to slip into full reverse anyway because there's no detent for idle reverse.

I've been able to set a detent for idle reverse (Fenix V2 + TCA Airbus sidestick), but the difference between idle reverse and idle thrust is so subtle that I usually go full reverse  anyway...


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1 hour ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I've been able to set a detent for idle reverse (Fenix V2 + TCA Airbus sidestick), but the difference between idle reverse and idle thrust is so subtle that I usually go full reverse  anyway...

I definitely set a "detent" according to the calibration in the MCDU but its not a physical "clicking detent" such as the Flex or Climb detents, so before I know it I'm already in full reverse and breaking all kinds of noise abatement rules 😆

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I tend to use full reverse because ....

(i)  I like the noise

(ii) I like to imagine I'm throwing any pax who've taken their seat belts off early, outta their seats!

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Bill

UK LAPL-A (Formerly NPPL-A and -M)

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11 minutes ago, JYW said:

I tend to use full reverse because ....

(i)  I like the noise

(ii) I like to imagine I'm throwing any pax who've taken their seat belts off early, outta their seats!

Haha, I think I'm in the same group as you, but was afraid to admit it! I love the sound!

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