ATC: A quick comparison test

[tup61 1,642]

9 minutes ago, guenseli said:

From your description it seems, VOX ATC has made very, very big steps since several month ago after the developer has thrown me out of the beta (silently, without any comment) as I repeatetly pronounced which aspects I see as showstopper (weird installation process, decluttered into several single programs, very difficult setup, forced to have a microphone plugged-in, 1990s interface, several CTDs and freezes, no reliable button inputs, not to use without voice (no button only usage).

So, I feared that these things will future customers make very upset, but all that seems to be solved now?! Great!

🙂

Looks a lot like my experience with BATC LOL Only I wasn't thrown out, I left myself. 😉 Not the mentioned problems btw but that I also warned them for upset future customers because of problems that weren't solved.

Edited May 8 by tup61

[kevinfirth 1,444]

23 minutes ago, guenseli said:

From your description it seems, VOX ATC has made very, very big steps since several month ago after the developer has thrown me out of the beta (silently, without any comment) as I repeatetly pronounced which aspects I see as showstopper (weird installation process, decluttered into several single programs, very difficult setup, forced to have a microphone plugged-in, 1990s interface, several CTDs and freezes, no reliable button inputs, not to use without voice (no button only usage).

So, I feared that these things will future customers make very upset, but all that seems to be solved now?! Great!

Lots fixed, always moving forwards.  I'm not sure about what you saw as a wierd installation process, its quite simple?  All now integrated into one app.  The setup isn't that difficult IMHO, but I totally agree it needs documenting better.  (Perhaps you'd share with me what you thought was hard and I'll look at it?)  At the moment its voice only, but the tech is there to enable it not to have to be.  However the ATC being right has to be correct first before that's looked at.

Let's not make it personal about devs though please, working with MSFS is bl**dy hard, as you know all too well from FSReborn @guenseli !!!!

All constructive feedback is welcome 🙂

Edited May 8 by kevinfirth

[guenseli 1,606]

9 minutes ago, tup61 said:

Looks a lot like my experience with BATC LOL Only I wasn't thrown out, I left myself. 😉 Not the mentioned problems btw but that I also warned them for upset future customers because of problems that weren't solved.

Beta is at discord and development progress was all in all very silent. So I wondered after aome months if sth is going on and I got informed from Kevin that the dev removed me. No discussion, no information. Even after a personal mail he didn't answer me.
Seems, ATC developers have all a very similar mindset 😉
 

Very curious what VOX ATC delivers once it is released.

[guenseli 1,606]

10 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

I'm not sure about what you saw as a wierd installation process, its quite simple?  All now integrated into one app.  The setup isn't that difficult IMHO, but I totally agree it needs documenting better.  (Perhaps you'd share with me what you thought was hard and I'll look at it?)

Not on my side back then. Alone the scenery indexing which lasts more then 15 minutes without any progress bar etc.
Looking forward what will be released and I'm sure then the dev has a lot people which will share if anything is buggy or complicated. Hopefully not.

[kevinfirth 1,444]

6 minutes ago, guenseli said:

Not on my side back then. Alone the scenery indexing which lasts more then 15 minutes without any progress bar etc.
Looking forward what will be released and I'm sure then the dev has a lot people which will share if anything is buggy or complicated. Hopefully not.

Can't help the scenery indexing really, it's what allows Vox to do some of what other apps cannot.  Progress bar, well, that's feedback I'll take on board 🙂

It's a full simulated ATC environment, LOL, there will ALWAYS be something that's not 100% right because there are so many real world unique procedures and variations.  If you want less complications, then get MSFS and Asobo to fully document the SDK in terms of AI control and get them to expand the simconnect functions to something approaching P3D.  Yes, it has to be said, the SDK functionality in P3D far exceeds that in MSFS I'm afraid.

Devs have to work with what is there.  Just because the scenery and other aspects are much improved, doesn't mean that some of the core functionality is better too.  It's not, in many cases it's actually worse than FSX.   This is something that ALL ATC devs for MSFS have to contend with.... 😞

Edited May 8 by kevinfirth

[espent 1,444]

25 minutes ago, tup61 said:

🙂

Looks a lot like my experience with BATC LOL Only I wasn't thrown out, I left myself. 😉 Not the mentioned problems btw but that I also warned them for upset future customers because of problems that weren't solved.

Do you really think they are not aware of this? And do you think it is helpful to keep bashing on the same every day?

It is much more difficult to be positive and to bring inputs that takes the product forward. Especially in this phase. You should take on this challenge 🙂 Repeating the obvious with a negative tone just drains energy from the team.

If you find a bug then report it through the correct channels and document it as good as you can. I am sure it will be handled when it reaches the top of their priority list.

Edited May 8 by espent

[tup61 1,642]

3 minutes ago, espent said:

Do you really think they are not aware of this? And do you think it is helpful to keep bashing on the same every day?

It is much more difficult to be positive and to bring inputs that takes the product forward. Especially in this phase. You should take on this challenge 🙂 Repeating the obvious with a negative tone just drains energy from the team.

If you find a bug then report it through the correct channels and document it as good as you can. I am sure it will be handled when it reaches the top of their priority list.

Fair enough. And because you are from my favorite country Norway (not kidding!) I'll listen to you!

The reporting of bugs will have to wait though until I can actually buy BATC...

[guenseli 1,606]

1 minute ago, espent said:

It is much more difficult to be positive and to bring inputs that takes the product forward.

Who says that hasn't happened?
I am and was part of many, many beta tests (Hifi, A2A, AivlaSoft back then, FSReborn, etc), mostly for over 10 years.
With ATC developers (VOX and FSHud) I do not have luck as they throw me out when I pronounce obvisious opinions, showstoppers, bugs, suggestions. 
What does make it a bad taste if, when these devs do not discuss or even deliver one argument, just cancel my account in the beta.

In the end - and exactly this has happened already with BATC now - customers yell why the "beta testers haven't done a better job???"
 

[kevinfirth 1,444]

13 minutes ago, espent said:

Do you really think they are not aware of this? And do you think it is helpful to keep bashing on the same every day?

It is much more difficult to be positive and to bring inputs that takes the product forward. Especially in this phase. You should take on this challenge 🙂 Repeating the obvious with a negative tone just drains energy from the team.

If you find a bug then report it through the correct channels and document it as good as you can. I am sure it will be handled when it reaches the top of their priority list.

We're all big boys here.  Developing ATC apps is hard.  No one product is ever going to be perfect for everyone.  In all teams there are people who disagree with the direction things go.  I prefer to be in the tent p*ssing out than the other way round 🙂

At the end of the day, the devs get to choose how they develop their products and whether they want/need to make changes based on beta tester's feedback.  I personally think it's better to have people that challenge you than yes men (or women).  But if I don't agree with the team leader or dev's opinion, I argue my point rationally and with evidence, and suck it up if my feedback isn't accepted 😉

Edited May 8 by kevinfirth

[tup61 1,642]

21 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

and suck it up if my feedback isn't accepted

Yeah, sucking it up isn't my best point... 😉 Though I have to add it's always been out of love and passion for the product (in case of BATC but also other products I beta tested)!

[hhbrbg 142]

56 minutes ago, guenseli said:

With ATC developers (VOX and FSHud) I do not have luck as they throw me out when I pronounce obvisious opinions, showstoppers, bugs, suggestions. 

If you don’t like the message, get rid of the messenger. 🙈

[espent 1,444]

If you keep getting ejected it is maybe time to work on your delivery...

[kevinfirth 1,444]

@espent @hhbrbg gents @guenseli is a good guy, as I know the devs are too.  Let's keep a focus on positive improvements to ATC apps and how they stack up against each other please?

There's no-one who deserves negativity here 😄

[guenseli 1,606]

13 minutes ago, espent said:

If you keep getting ejected it is maybe time to work on your delivery...

You do most probably not know what I have reported. I told you already that I'm still in several betatests and some since more then 10 years.
No, I do not change reporting bugs and suggestions to developers, or, as you call it "delivery".
Developers can decide if they take this and improve their product or if they ignore it and let the customers decide.

Perhaps you remeber the first Aerosoft Airbus (was it P3D or still FSX?) back then?
I have told them to not release during beta. They ignored and I left the beta and it ended it a very unsatisfied customer base. According to you I should have told them that everything is perfect!?

Guys, can we get on topic, please, now?!

[Sonosusto 711]

Should have tested this with Pilot2ATC as well.