And maybe MSFS2024 will surprise everyone with a AI based ATC, an open weather and Navdata-Api and live generated AI-Traffic by FR24 🙂

(Maybe this explains the rush of software being released right now 🙂 )

2 minutes ago, hs118 said:

SayIntentions is looking to use crowdsourcing to collect taxiway data (see their recent stream/dev update). This is similar to how Pilot2ATC generates taxi instruction and not a bad way to do it if an editor of some kind is provided.

That migh be a good solution, actually. Whether it will suffice (how complete and current taxi data is) will depend on how many people use SI. P2ATC has a pretty small userbase and there were hardly any taxi & gates on flightsim.to before I started adding them myself.

there is a official API inside the SDK to get the actual loaded Nav-/Airport Data from MSFS directly, why not use that one? I guess FSHud and BATC are using it as well

17 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

That migh be a good solution, actually. Whether it will suffice (how complete and current taxi data is) will depend on how many people use SI. P2ATC has a pretty small userbase and there were hardly any taxi & gates on flightsim.to before I started adding them myself.

I've done a few myself but before flightsim.to....I probably should go ahead and upload them.

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@techman, has gone to the trouble of comparing the same flight with three different ATC programs. The best way to check if you agree or not is to fly the same route and report your findings. Remember to depart at the same time / date for an accurate comparison.

This is a completely objective test. Things either work or they don't. For those of you who have used Radar Contact v4 that would be a useful comparison if you still have P3D installed.

PF3 does all the things in that test "good," and has been doing them for years, and it doesn't cost $330 a year. 

Edited May 5, 20242 yr by Bobsk8

 

My understanding is that FSHud does not accept a wide range of voice input and understands the different variations of voice input, like BeyondATC does?  Does FSHud even have voice input at this stage?  If that is the case, how can FSHud be compared to the other two? The other two, SayIntetions.AI and BeyondATC, accept voice commands and also understand (to an extent), variations of voice input and variations of word usage.

Edited May 5, 20242 yr by abrams_tank

2 hours ago, techman said:

Regarding GPTs: I am actually running an AI project myself (not regarding flightsim, but for business) and I can tell you that what you say is not 100 % true. You just have to design it properly. This is a pretty new technology and it developes very very fast. Its not an if/then/else thing, its a different approach to almost everything.

How can the SayIntentions team fix inherent flaws with ChatPT with respect to ATC, if they can't change the source code and design of ChatGPT? Probably to be able to fix some inherent issues, SayIntentions would have to change some of the source code of ChatGPT. In the end, SayIntentions is just using ChatGPT, like they are using an API.  When you use an API, typically you can't change the base code or base design of the API engine.

11 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

My understanding is that FSHud does not accept a wide range of voice input and understands the different variations of voice input, like BeyondATC does?  Does FSHud even have voice input at this stage?  If that is the case, how can FSHud be compared to the other two? The other two, SayIntetions.AI and BeyondATC, accept voice commands and also understand (to an extent), variations of voice input and variations of word usage.

FSHud does not have voice input, in this regard is just like default ATC, you chose an option from a list. What it does and those two aren't is that it controlls traffic and manages separation between aircrafts on the ground or in the air.

Edited May 5, 20242 yr by Tva

19 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

How can the SayIntentions team fix inherent flaws with ChatPT with respect to ATC, if they can't change the source code and design of ChatGPT? Probably to be able to fix some inherent issues, SayIntentions would have to change some of the source code of ChatGPT. In the end, SayIntentions is just using ChatGPT, like they are using an API.  When you use an API, typically you can't change the base code or base design of the API engine.

What I don't get is how can you compare a $30 per month cost for one ATC program with another that cost  around $60 for as long as you use it. Say you use an ATC program for about 3 years ( I have used the one I use now for around  8 years). That would be almost $1,000 versus $60. Talk about apples and oranges. 

5 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

What I don't get is how can you compare a $30 per month cost for one ATC program with another that cost  around $60 for as long as you use it. Say you use an ATC program for about 3 years ( I have used the one I use now for around  8 years). That would be almost $1,000 versus $60. Talk about apples and oranges. 

I agree. I don't use MSFS as often these days so I definitely won't pay $30 a month for SayIntetions.AI. I wish SayIntentions.AI had a pricing model for infrequent users like me, where they charge per hour or something. If they charged per hour, then SayIntentions would get interest from people like me, who don't use MSFS as frequently.

BTW, BeyondATC is only $30 USD, not $60 USD. They cut the price in half, several months ago. And when BeyondATC cut the price from $60 USD to $30 USD, basic voices are now free (whereas they were charging for basic voices when it was priced at $60 USD).  You will still have to pay for Premium voices though in this final release version of BeyondATC, so make sure you don't use Premium voices if you want to save money.  Anyways, the new $30 price makes BeyondATC even a better deal!

Edited May 5, 20242 yr by abrams_tank

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

PF3 does all the things in that test "good," and has been doing them for years, and it doesn't cost $330 a year. 

Pricing seems to be $29.99. https://www.beyondatc.net/pricing

10 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Pricing seems to be $29.99. https://www.beyondatc.net/pricing

He was talking about SI, which costs $360 dollars a year.

2 hours ago, techman said:

surprise everyone with a AI based ATC, an open weather and Navdata-Api

The sim already has not one but two complete navdata APIs: one came with the sim release in JS, and another one now comes with the sim via SimConnect or WASM, since I think SU10 or maybe even earlier.

As an aside, a huge problem we, as developers, are running into, is the general public's wild overconfidence in what a LLM can actually do, with most folks placing near sci-fi levels of capability to it. But they're really very stupid: all they are is a probability machine that says "what's the most likely next word in this sentence given the training material". They don't actually possess any knowledge, and cannot do any mathematics. It's really just smarter "monkeys at a typewriter" with some extra direction on what part of the training material to pull from (the prompt).

I do not believe we will see LLM AI working in a way that is appropriate for general purpose IFR ATC any time within the next 5-10 years. It will always hallucinate, because it _is_ always hallucinating: it is doing nothing more than statistics with words. It's just not the right tool for the job, IMO.

Edited May 5, 20242 yr by MattNischan

7 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

The sim already has not one but two complete navdata APIs: one came with the sim release in JS, and another one now comes with the sim via SimConnect or WASM, since I think SU10 or maybe even earlier.

And both deliver incomplete data.