... caved in, bought the 777 and just tried it on EGLL to LFMN with the add-on airports and photogrammetry, using the RNAVZ22R approach. This is the curved one that follows the sweep of the Promenade d'anglais in Nice. 

I thought it did a good job. Some unexpected behaviour in that it wouldn't descend below the final fix altitude on autopilot (you don't use APPR mode for this kind of approach in the 777, unlike the a320) - but that might be because I set minimums prior to the final fix, or some other user error. The auto throttle didn't really track the programmed speeds either but again this could well have been user error.

If it was possible to fly a curved approach with PMDG's earlier models, then I've forgotten about it: my recollection is that they didn't know how to handle arcs / DME curves properly and their workaround was too clunky to work well for this kind of semi-precise flying. 

I'm not a complete fan of the new bird: visually the cockpit is disappointing imo compared with the standards we're now seeing routinely from other developers and even from stock planes: as someone else observed, it does look rather as if they've just ported the cockpit visuals straight from P3D. Also little things like the sun visor : no animation at all: either it's up, or spontaneously down. Some of the other bits and bobs for handling simbrief/navigraph integration / ground handling options seem a bit clunky compared with the Fenix. The various displays seem to use a fairly low resolution (shows up when putting them separately into a different monitor) and their refresh rate seems nerfed. The MCDU and tablet can't be offloaded onto iPads (so far as I know). 

It would be great for some more competition in this field to spur PMDG to up their game a bit.

BUT ... overall ... good to have a nice big Boeing with deep systems simulation at last! 

 

 

Edited June 28, 20241 yr by tfm

For 6000 sold in 3 minutes....I don't think they care about sunvisors.....lol

6 minutes ago, cyyzrwy24 said:

For 6000 sold in 3 minutes....I don't think they care about sunvisors.....lol

lol no I guess that's actually the basic reason why I do have some reservations about PMDG: they have a captive market and they exploit it: for all the hype, imo they have a tendency to do the bare minimum - plus some gimmicks like a clickable biro - rather than going above and beyond. But perhaps that's just me being jaded. 

Edited June 28, 20241 yr by tfm

Unless you're in APP mode, the airplane won't descend past what you have set in the altitude window.  So if you've got something other than zero set, it will stop descending at that point.  

19 minutes ago, cyyzrwy24 said:

For 6000 sold in 3 minutes....I don't think they care about sunvisors.....lol

they could of doubled the asking price, people would still of bought it.  Ive always said the standard of addons have steady decreased over the years with the advent of pay to beta.  In short you can sell any old tat now in this community if you hype it enough.  Both RSR and Kok know this.   

If i told my boss tomorrow I could easily sell seats on the plane that are broken, for the same price as a perfectly good seat and people would happily buy them he'd pat me on the back and give me a bonus, not to mention every other airline would be itching to recruit me.  This is whats happened in this community and weve quite happily let it happen without a shot even being fired.

"dont blame the player, blame the system"  - we by buying sub standard addons and championing pay to beta have created the system,  the devs are just playing the game.  

 

Edited June 28, 20241 yr by fluffyflops

4 minutes ago, ATRguy said:

Unless you're in APP mode, the airplane won't descend past what you have set in the altitude window.  So if you've got something other than zero set, it will stop descending at that point.  

Ah ok, thanks! That's not what I had understood: I thought LNAV plus VNAV were all that's needed on the 777. I'll try again tomorrow 🙂 

20 minutes ago, ATRguy said:

Unless you're in APP mode, the airplane won't descend past what you have set in the altitude window.  So if you've got something other than zero set, it will stop descending at that point.  

I thought in VNAV it will still descend *IF* you have the altitude set to the MINS. You don't use APP for RNAV approaches in the 777-200/300.

G

Edit: According to what I viewed online the Boeing way is to set the MDA and let the FMS deal with intermediate waypoints. Although airlines may (or may not) have their own practices.

Edit #2: Some light viewing.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited June 28, 20241 yr by Gazzareth
Put video in Spoiler tags ..

23 minutes ago, Gazzareth said:

I thought in VNAV it will still descend *IF* you have the altitude set to the MINS. You don't use APP for RNAV approaches in the 777-200/300.

G

Edit: According to what I viewed online the Boeing way is to set the MDA and let the FMS deal with intermediate waypoints. Although airlines may (or may not) have their own practices.

Edit #2: Some light viewing.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Yes it will descend to whatever is displayed in the altitude window.

You might want to have a look at the latter parts on this video (which is fully time-stamped so you can select what it is that you want to view)

Suffice it to say, the Boeing Way is not at all the Airbus Way, and there are even important differences between how the 777 does things vs the 737. We can leave to others to decide whether or not the PMDG 777 is study level or not, but flying it in a manner that yields satisfactory outcomes involves a significant learning curve.

Good luck and happy flying.

1 hour ago, tfm said:

lol no I guess that's actually the basic reason why I do have some reservations about PMDG: they have a captive market and they exploit it: for all the hype, imo they have a tendency to do the bare minimum - plus some gimmicks like a clickable biro - rather than going above and beyond. But perhaps that's just me being jaded. 

LOL....that doesn't make them different then "parent" company in Everett....Hopefully door plugs are secured

Edited June 28, 20241 yr by cyyzrwy24

2 hours ago, fluffyflops said:

f i told my boss tomorrow I could easily sell seats on the plane that are broken, for the same price as a perfectly good seat and people would happily buy them he'd pat me on the back and give me a bonus, not to mention every other airline would be itching to recruit me.  This is whats happened in this community and weve quite happily let it happen without a shot even being fired.

Very true....spot on, unfortunately...... Quality of everything deteriorated to the lowest point. And what is interesting, and specially on this or their Forum, if you complain by any means or just suggest something that makes sense, they will read you rights and call you names.....

 

8 hours ago, jrw4 said:

You might want to have a look at the latter parts on this video (which is fully time-stamped so you can select what it is that you want to view)

Suffice it to say, the Boeing Way is not at all the Airbus Way, and there are even important differences between how the 777 does things vs the 737. We can leave to others to decide whether or not the PMDG 777 is study level or not, but flying it in a manner that yields satisfactory outcomes involves a significant learning curve.

Good luck and happy flying.

Thanks for that!

-As I thought, APP is not used in the 777 - but "dialling the dirt" AFTER the FAP (~3h25m to ~3h30m) is new to me - although he didn't actually do what he said he'd do (~3h43 - ~3h47m) 🤪

Edited June 29, 20241 yr by tfm

1 hour ago, tfm said:

Thanks for that!

-As I thought, APP is not used in the 777 - but "dialling the dirt" AFTER the FAP (~3h25m to ~3h30m) is new to me - although he didn't actually do what he said he'd do (~3h43 - ~3h47m) 🤪

Looking at the videos again it appears my memory was faulty, must be an age thing. 

I remember dialing in DA because dialing in down to that picks up the exact altitude, looks like I forgot what I did after. Very different to the 737 though. 

G

14 hours ago, ATRguy said:

Unless you're in APP mode, the airplane won't descend past what you have set in the altitude window.  So if you've got something other than zero set, it will stop descending at that point.  

Wrong. In the 777 you stay in VNAV on a RNV approach. Which you would know if you had taken a peek into the manual. 😉

 

The FMC will transition to the APP phase when flaps are not UP, an approach waypoint has been sequenced, or a glideslope is captured or within 25 of the first missed approach waypoint. The APP phase is very important and differs from the DES phase in two main aspects.

• Opening the speed window will not result in a reversion to VNAV SPD. The aircraft shall remain in VNAV PTH and the autothrottle in SPD mode.
• If the MCP altitude is 300' or higher than the current aircraft altitude, VNAV is not blocked and will descend to the runway or miss the approach decision waypoint, respecting all altitude restrictions in between.

Edited June 29, 20241 yr by Farlis

13 hours ago, cyyzrwy24 said:

Very true....spot on, unfortunately...... Quality of everything deteriorated to the lowest point. And what is interesting, and specially on this or their Forum, if you complain by any means or just suggest something that makes sense, they will read you rights and call you names.....

 

Exactly. As both you and @fluffyflops mentioned, very early releases, not even beta-tested products, have become the norm, unfortunately. When we look at recent PMDG releases and compare them to their previous work, it's clear that they used to have acceptable quality control and minimal bugs upon initial release." 

However, today they seem to have changed significantly and are almost unrecognizable compared to their previous exemplary performance. The situation ended up being a choice between a money-grab vs a high-quality software.

This new trend of trying to silence people it's not only on this forum. Also, at the PMDG forum, valid complaints are met with vigorous resistance and severe criticism for daring to report bugs or problems, sometimes leading to banning if persistence continues. Funny enough, many people are completely unaware of how airplanes should fly but love to engage in unproductive discussions. It's troubling to see how easily people abandon what's right and embrace what's wrong.

This mentality that criticism is unacceptable and that pointing out the bugs is something wrong only empowers people like RSR and Kok to continue their sloppy work. People who are familiar with and know the operation of any airplane and notice bugs should speak up for the good of the community and hope that these products will improve.