FF 777 v2 Available again to Purchase

[jcomm]

3 hours ago, Franz007 said:

There really should, except if the winds are very low. Here an example of that wind vecor during cruise: https://youtu.be/70uqN8U4PYg?t=3327

 

Thank you @Franz007, also for the really nice vid which I already had in my "Favourites" but didn't have time to watch already.

Shows how great city night lighting looks in X-Plane too !!!

[Franz007]

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

Thank you @Franz007, also for the really nice vid which I already had in my "Favourites" but didn't have time to watch already.

Shows how great city night lighting looks in X-Plane too !!!

Absolutely! Enjoy and you are welcome 🙂

[BobFS88]

15 hours ago, Guido1996 said:

I don't consider the Boeing planes that Flight Factor makes to be any good.

Based on popular belief? Or based on personal experience because many of quality 757/767 from PMDG is non existent and they never felt the need to build any of them up until now. That is why FF is so popular with those aircraft because they built what people wanted for sim. PMDG kept making business excuse for years when people wanted them and when people discover that FF has them, that is what brought people over. They may not have been the best but they are good aircraft in their own way and you can at least fly them.    

 

15 hours ago, Guido1996 said:

The 757 and 767 have not received any updates for a long, long time, as has the A350.

Have you noticed the attention has been given to the FF 777v2 that has been built from the ground up since the announcement was made some 5 years earlier, average time for a complete study level aircraft?  The based develope code can be used that will modernized other Boeing aircraft to take advantage of XP12 rather than reusing old code meant for earlier version of the sim is a good reason why resource are not given to the older aircraft. After all, why would you want them to spend time on older aircraft that can't take of advantage of the sims new capabilities and get nothing out of it, unless they are built from the ground up. That is the whole point for breaking away from old code in the first place so that they can offer new version with more feature that are far better than what you have now. That would be something to look forward to, I think.

 

15 hours ago, Guido1996 said:

The time invested in any aircraft is a lot. There is no doubt about that. But if they have already abandoned their other Boeing aircraft, leaving them aside and without updating them, why wouldn't they do the same with the 777v2?

If they had ported the aircraft then that would be one thing, but this aircraft is not a port, it is a number of years in the making and they position this aircraft as the sim's leading development made for XP12 at the 2023's FlightSim Expo, although you can get this for XP11 as well. They 're  commented  to seeing this as a success with knowing what they are up against with the competition. They know they can't afford for this to be just some average release and walk away from it, it will not cut it for them anymore. They know there is too much at stake and too much invested, mainly time and money for them to just abandon and walk away.

Beside what benefit would it be to Ramzzeses if he did that, only to word not allowed off users and let them go to PMDG? It would be kind of dumb on his part, don't you think?

15 hours ago, Guido1996 said:

There is an audience for everything. I prefer to wait for the plane to be finished and complete.

That's fair and it would do many good if many other's would use that approach rather than rush a product out the door unfinished while being pessimistic about its future.

 

Edited September 8, 2024 by BobFS88

[Guido1996]

13 hours ago, Franz007 said:

The FF-757/767 are very solid and have been updated last time in february this year. I don’t see anything wrong with them. Perhaps you just have too much expectations. For being pretty old addons now, they are still very good. And they have tons of options and different variants (all models and engines being simulated). I struggle to see what updates you are expecting and it what frequency? If you think that every addon should be updated nonstop until they have everything that for example the CL650 or the FF777v2 offers then I think that you have unrealistic expectations. I haven’t seen many other addons on the market that got updated as often as the FF757/767.

The Toliss got updated in dec 2023 last time. Yes they have become very good but for ex. their textures could also been improved theoretically to keep up with nowadays standards. Why haven’t they been updated? The Zibo is of course a fantastic freeware but we could also argue that it doesn’t have popout screens (that is standard in many addons).

Again, this is simply wrong since they haven’t abandonned any of them, this is simply a lie (see above).

This is perfectly fine. Everyone can decide for themselves. But there is no such thing as a « finished » addon. Never happened and never will, since technologies of real aircrafts evolve and new procedures being implemented, leading to people thinking they need those otherwise the addon would be « incomplete ». Or give me a single example of an airliner-addon that has been 100% finished at release? I agree however that the 777v2 still needs a very few basic-functionalities that belongs to the core, like optimizing the VNAV (that works pretty good already in the last release). At least they are informing their potential customers about these incomplete features. And this is really fair. There isn’t otherwise a way of pleasing all customers, other than wait and wait and wait and never release any addon since there will always be something missing.

This is a different topic. If you don’t like their after-sales-support, this is not related to them abandonning any of their addons. That’s why I found your remark about them abandonning their addons pretty unfair and is also not what happened.

Sure, everyone can express their opinion. But I still find it somehow confusing if you mention that the reason is that they are abandonning their addons. It may be related to a bad experience with their after-sales support or that they need long to answer a bug-report. So it would be better to mention that reason.

 

To summarise a bit so as not to make it too long. In my case, I like Airbus more than Boeing and I have spent a lot of money on the A350 and A320 from Flight Factor and the truth is that I would like there to be a return policy because I am very unhappy with these two products in particular. That is why I decided to go with Toliss and the truth is that they can continue to improve and the textures too, but they are a superior complement and highly superior if I compare them with the Airbus line from Flight Factor.

 

Maybe I don't know how to express myself very well. I speak Spanish. I'm not pretending that an airplane is updated monthly because it is unrealistic if that happens and obviously it will never be 100% finished because in real life there are modifications and in avionics and in many other things. But the Airbus have been left aside. I feel cheated. 

Today for me the most talented developers are Hot Start - FlyJSim - Toliss - Thranda - Aeronask and some others more in the order that you want to put them. I hope you can understand me better

[Guido1996]

5 hours ago, BobFS88 said:

Based on popular belief? Or based on personal experience because many of quality 757/767 from PMDG is non existent and they never felt the need to build any of them up until now. That is why FF is so popular with those aircraft because they built what people wanted for sim. PMDG kept making business excuse for years when people wanted them and when people discover that FF has them, that is what brought people over. They may not have been the best but they are good aircraft in their own way and you can at least fly them.    

 

Have you noticed the attention has been given to the FF 777v2 that has been built from the ground up since the announcement was made some 5 years earlier, average time for a complete study level aircraft?  The based develope code can be used that will modernized other Boeing aircraft to take advantage of XP12 rather than reusing old code meant for earlier version of the sim is a good reason why resource are not given to the older aircraft. After all, why would you want them to spend time on older aircraft that can't take of advantage of the sims new capabilities and get nothing out of it, unless they are built from the ground up. That is the whole point for breaking away from old code in the first place so that they can offer new version with more feature that are far better than what you have now. That would be something to look forward to, I think.

 

If they had ported the aircraft then that would be one thing, but this aircraft is not a port, it is a number of years in the making and they position this aircraft as the sim's leading development made for XP12 at the 2023's FlightSim Expo, although you can get this for XP11 as well. They 're  commented  to seeing this as a success with knowing what they are up against with the competition. They know they can't afford for this to be just some average release and walk away from it, it will not cut it for them anymore. They know there is too much at stake and too much invested, mainly time and money for them to just abandon and walk away.

Beside what benefit would it be to Ramzzeses if he did that, only to word not allowed off users and let them go to PMDG? It would be kind of dumb on his part, don't you think?

That's fair and it would do many good if many other's would use that approach rather than rush a product out the door unfinished while being pessimistic about its future.

 

1 - I bought all the Flight Factor planes. I've been using X-Plane since XP10 and I'm basing it on years of experience and mostly on Airbus which I like more than Boeing. You say that many of the quality 757/767s from PMDG don't exist and you're right. But I'm not going to analyze that because I don't use MSFS and I bought it to try it out but I like X-Plane 12 better and the X-Plane flight is better for me.

You're right about this they built what people wanted for simulation and I think it's good that they listened to people and I agree with what you say. But it's not a developer that I like FF

 

2- Yes, that's true. It takes a lot of time and money to build a plane from scratch. I didn't know the rest of the information because I'm not an expert in code development and editing. What they should do is explain this and explain why they don't pay more attention to it. Your explanation was very good and now I can understand the situation a little more, but Flight Factor should be in charge of explaining this as you have explained it to me.

 

3 - It makes sense, but I don't believe it until I see what happens in concrete. Time will tell.

 

4 - That's just how it is. I don't see any logic in getting desperate when an airplane comes out incomplete or in BETA version. The developer should do it calmly and we have to wait for the right time and without rushing. When the airplane is finished and complete and ready to fly, we will buy it.

[Franz007]

6 hours ago, Guido1996 said:

To summarise a bit so as not to make it too long. In my case, I like Airbus more than Boeing and I have spent a lot of money on the A350 and A320 from Flight Factor and the truth is that I would like there to be a return policy because I am very unhappy with these two products in particular. That is why I decided to go with Toliss and the truth is that they can continue to improve and the textures too, but they are a superior complement and highly superior if I compare them with the Airbus line from Flight Factor.

Yes Toliss are the best for Airbus, FF for Boeing. But if you were interested in a Boeing-addon you shouldn’t base your opinion on their Airbusses.

6 hours ago, Guido1996 said:

Maybe I don't know how to express myself very well. I speak Spanish. I'm not pretending that an airplane is updated monthly because it is unrealistic if that happens and obviously it will never be 100% finished because in real life there are modifications and in avionics and in many other things. But the Airbus have been left aside. I feel cheated.

I am a non english-native as well but as far as I can judge your english seems to be very good. I don’t disagree with what your saying about their Airbusses. But just out of curiosity, what are you missing in the FF320 after they have added all the stuff after many years? And for what reason would you consider it « left aside »?

6 hours ago, Guido1996 said:

Today for me the most talented developers are Hot Start - FlyJSim - Toliss - Thranda - Aeronask and some others more in the order that you want to put them. I hope you can understand me better

Yes I agree with that list. But in my opinion also FF when it comes to Boeing’s 😉

[jcomm]

I really didn't like their 777 v1 - it was a huge disappointment back then, but then I decided to purchase the FF 320, and it was completely different.

Yes there were, and are, limitations and inconsistencies in the FF 320, like for instance the behaviour under asymmetric thrust, but overall I did like the way the FBW was modelled.

I then started using the Toliss, and while the FSLabs airbuses are still by far my preferred airbus recreations among the various platforms, I think that all summed up in terms of features, the Toliss wins.

Later I earned the 757 Prop package and I was positively surprised. I had long forgotten about 757s and 767s, and it was nice to use although it has it's quirks, probably also due to X-Plane flight dynamics limitations also (?), but I did like it.

From the various videos I have been watching I have to say I like what I see in this v2, but I purchased the PMDG 777 for MSFS 2020, and since I seldom use it I'm a bit affraid of spending my money on this 777 v2, even now that it cost less $10 than the final price.

I will see ... 

Edited September 9, 2024 by jcomm
Wrote v2 instead of v1 in the intial post...

[Jude Bradley]

FYI. I have both the FF 777v2 and the PMDG 777-300 for MSFS and I fly the FlightFactor one way more.

[jcomm]

29 minutes ago, Jude Bradley said:

FYI. I have both the FF 777v2 and the PMDG 777-300 for MSFS and I fly the FlightFactor one way more.

Thx for the feedback Jude.

Although I accept comparisons between sims result many times in derrailed threads, I do hope this is not the case since we're all grownup 🙂

Can you list some of the reasons why you're preferring the FF 777 v2 ? 

.) Feel of flight ?

.) Systems implementation ?

.) Failures implementation ?

.) Overall functionality, including ground services, walk around, FO, etc... ?

The above, from the videos I've been watching, are the ones that could make take a decision.

[Franz007]

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

really didn't like their 777 v1 - it was a huge disappointment back then, but then I decided to purchase the FF 320, and it was completely different.

For someone having been using XP for years and years, the B777v1 was a fantastic addon back then and a big jump forward compared to the addons available (only the JRollon CRJ200 could compete, most of the others still had 2D-cockpits and were using default avionics…except perhaps the Jar A320 and a few others). But it was far below what PMDG did. That was the only reason back then for why I purchased P3D 😊 So if you were using another platform I get why you were disappointed by the FF777v1. For others like me using only XP, believe me, it was a very appreciated addon. XP hadn’t very advanced addons in the beginning. Now they have fully catched up 💪😊

[jcomm]

3 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

For someone having been using XP for years and years, the B777v1 was a fantastic addon back then and a big jump forward compared to the addons available (only the JRollon CRJ200 could compete, most of the others still had 2D-cockpits and were using default avionics…except perhaps the Jar A320 and a few others). But it was far below what PMDG did. That was the only reason back then for why I purchased P3D 😊 So if you were using another platform I get why you were disappointed by the FF777v1. For others like me using only XP, believe me, it was a very appreciated addon. XP hadn’t very advanced addons in the beginning. Now they have fully catched up 💪😊

Makes sense, and yes, my main platforms have always been MS FS and derivatives... Compared to the then available PMDG 777 the FF 777 v1 did leave a lot to be desired...

Again, watching the videos I've watched during the last week I get the feel that I could be positively impressed by v2 though... 

Edited September 9, 2024 by jcomm

[Aglos77]

3 hours ago, Franz007 said:

Para alguien que ha estado usando XP durante años y años, el B777v1 fue un complemento fantástico en ese entonces y un gran salto adelante en comparación con los complementos disponibles (solo el JRollon CRJ200 podía competir, la mayoría de los demás todavía tenían cabinas 2D y usaban aviónica predeterminada... excepto quizás el Jar A320 y algunos otros). Pero estaba muy por debajo de lo que hacía PMDG. Esa fue la única razón por la que compré P3D en ese momento 😊 Entonces, si estabas usando otra plataforma, entiendo por qué te decepcionó el FF777v1. Para otros como yo que solo usan XP, créeme, fue un complemento muy apreciado. XP no tenía complementos muy avanzados al principio. Ahora se han puesto al día por completo 💪 😊

That happened to me too as I only had x-plane v1 I liked it a lot.

Then I was by circumstances of life without being able to simulate for lack of computer several years I bought a computer when I improve my situation I agree with MFS, but I have never felt comfortable with MFS and I have returned to xp12 since last Christmas has been like coming back home.

 

Edit: Sorry for my bad English I am Spanish and it is hard for me to communicate with all of you. 

Edited September 9, 2024 by Aglos77

[brinx]

I've decided not to spend money on anymore products labeled BETA. When you have issues, the typical line will be "It's beta software". Going forward I'm buying products after full release. It applies to other products outside of Flight Sim too.

From what I've seen both FF 777 v2 and PMDG 777 appear to be good products. For the majority it is going to come down to which sim you are most invested in and fly the most.

In my opinion, FF probably lost a lot of sale from those that fly both SIMs because they were beaten to market by PMDG. I don't believe a sizeable amount will buy a second 777 especially given that it cost more.

I don't understand why FF 777 v2 is still labeled as beta though. Maybe someone knows the answer to this. When I see BETA software, my mind automatically thinks "unstable". In today's world, you can do a full release of stable apps and still add features later.

[Epikk]

Alpha means, some main features of the product are still being developped and not included in the product. 
Beta means, even though all main features are now present in the product there are still some bugs and missing stuff. 
And believe it or not there's still a long way to go depending on how you're looking at it... 

[Guido1996]

 

 

17 hours ago, Franz007 said:

Yes Toliss are the best for Airbus, FF for Boeing. But if you were interested in a Boeing-addon you shouldn’t base your opinion on their Airbusses.

I am a non english-native as well but as far as I can judge your english seems to be very good. I don’t disagree with what your saying about their Airbusses. But just out of curiosity, what are you missing in the FF320 after they have added all the stuff after many years? And for what reason would you consider it « left aside »?

Yes I agree with that list. But in my opinion also FF when it comes to Boeing’s 😉

 

FF Airbus have problems. The A320 has many problems with textures and fogged windshields. The A/T system in Toliss works the same as the real plane and in the FF one it has some small problems. The cockpit looks bad and very blurry and in the Toliss one that doesn't happen to me. The A350 has a high FPS consumption and if I compare it with the Toliss A346 it doesn't. After the last update of the A320 nothing has been fixed and everything remains the same

I like Airbus more than Boeing. But in reality I like business aviation more than airliners. My favorite plane is the Lear Jet 45 and the Dash Q400 but unfortunately there is no Lear in X-Plane 😞