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Snowfalcon

FSX Improvement & Vista SP1?

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Happened to read a business oriented tech column in today's paper. The writer says that the real purpose of Vista SP-1 is commercial sales related, and I had better not go any further into that.The point of this post however, is that he states that Vista SP-1 will be mostly just a compilation of the updates present users have been receiving on a regular basis.Hope he is wrong, and that SP-1 really will solve some of the FSX problems, particularly the ones some Graphics Card people are allegedly blaming on the present version of Vista.Did I make that vague enough?Comments (non provocative) invited.Regards,Thrakete

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Hi,There is a misconception about Service Packs.This misconception is there since XP Service Pack 2 altered the OS so much that it actually was a complete different beast. A Service Pack in the classic meaning is a point in time of patches and updates, that all have been tested toroughly together, and are considered stable.Microsoft will be shipping from then on Vista SP1, and not anymore Vista RTM. This does not mean that Microsoft can not add something to the package, to make it faster, more stable, etc. They can do this because they have had the chance to test it - and this is important - in one package. I do not know what this something is, only MS can know that.There is proof : if you want to download the complete SP1, this is possible (even recommended for big accounts) but it will be a very big download.The second option is to download it from WindowsUpdate, and the download will be much smaller, because it will ony download what is missing. This is what I am waiting for.I already hear the moaning and complaints about people who expect too much. Yes, that writer is right : SP1 is "mostly" a compilation of all the current updates + a "something". And I do not expect this "something" to do the same thing as it did with XP SP2. Certainly, do not expect it to be the magic bullet to fix FSX.On the other hand, possibly Nvidia and ATI have had the chance to test their drivers with Vita SP1 since a few months now, so maybe - and mind you, just maybe - we will see some fixes from them in the weeks following SP1 (For Nvidia, it has been 3 months since the last WHQL driver for the 8800).Jan

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Thrakete,I might add that I previously had SP1 RC1 installed and it had no noticeable effect on FSX. Some people reported an increased fps, but no one produced any reliable benchmark, so I consider it to be a placebo effect.Ulf BCore2Duo X6800 3.3GHz4GB RAM Corsair XMS2-8500C5BFG 8800GTX, Creative SB X-FiFSX Acc/SP2, Vista 32

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>Happened to read a business oriented tech column in today's>paper. The writer says that the real purpose of Vista SP-1 is>commercial sales related, and I had better not go any further>into that.>nonsense.>The point of this post however, is that he states that Vista>SP-1 will be mostly just a compilation of the updates present>users have been receiving on a regular basis.>true.>Hope he is wrong, and that SP-1 really will solve some of the>FSX problems, particularly the ones some Graphics Card people>are allegedly blaming on the present version of Vista.>They're wrong to blame Vista, as usual the problem is with a 3rd party product, in this case the video drivers.A service pack for an operating system is unlikely to contain "fixes" specific to specific applications (though it happens), especially games.That's not to say that there won't be an effect, but it won't be dedicated to that game.>Comments (non provocative) invited.>by non-provocative, do you mean you don't want comments that tell you what you don't want to hear?Or comments that are not negative about Vista?Without such specification it's impossible to comply with your request.

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Thank you for doing the impossible and complying with my request.Regards,Thrakete

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The only thing Vista32 SP1 did for me was eliminate some of my OOM crashes when hitting 72%+ RAM usage on a 4GB quad core system. It didn't seem to have any effect on FPS or anything else, just baseline system stability (which is what SPs are really for).

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Peter, That observation is in agreement with the article I referred to. The writer stated that the Vista systems now in business use have shown a noticeable improvement in stability in the last few months (due to the updates). Therefore, since SP-1 will really be "mostly" a compilation of these updates, anyone who now uses Vista, and is installing the updates as they come out, should not expect any radical change in the OS when SP-1 is installed.Regards,Thrakete

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I'm a happy user of Vista x64. SP1 has fixed for me the major problem, which had to do with file copy performance, but I've really not had any issues with FSX on Vista x64.The DX10 graphic glitches seem for the moment squarely related to Nvidia drivers and are not addressed with SP1, although the new beta drivers do reduce the flickering quite a bit (although they crash another game I use on startup - not a good situation).I also read many differences between the 32 bit version of Vista and the 64 bit version, in terms of performance and behavior, so I want to constructively :) caution against comparing Vista without referencing which version.Cheers,Etienne

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A good point, and I have run into this before. Whether 32 or 64 bit should be specified in any Vista discussion involving a problem. Thanks for the reminder.Regards,Thrakete

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I am not an "insider", but here is what I think is happening:My present impression is that Vista SP-1, both the 64 bit and the 32 bit versions are out and available (somewhere, to some people-MSDN members are one group). This is supported by the fact that some of the posters are running Vista SP-1.However, I have been advised that release as an automatic download to all Vista users is imminent, and that the automatic download version will install only the software not previously furnished as updates and installed on the particular user's computer. This would make it a much smaller download than adding the whole SP-1 to the original Vista released version.I intend to wait for the automatic download version.Regards,Thrakete

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Jim,Thanks for the link. Short but informative. I uninstalled SP1 RC1 because boot time for my Vista increased about 150% with SP1 RC1. So I'll await feedback from others before going for SP1 once more, and if I do I'll make sure that I can revert to pre SP1 in a safe way if I get any problems with it.Ulf B

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How long will it take for SP1 to come on the Vista distribution media?RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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"Thanks for the link. Short but informative. I uninstalled SP1 RC1 because boot time for my Vista increased about 150% with SP1 RC1. So I'll await feedback from others before going for SP1 once more, and if I do I'll make sure that I can revert to pre SP1 in a safe way if I get any problems with it."Here's a link to an excellent review of Vista SP1 by the author of Windows Vista Secrets. I thought his "Final Thoughts" were most interesting and you might too.... http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_sp1.aspJim

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Jim,Thanks for the link. Sure SP1 is important, but if SP1 RTM decreases boot time in the same way that RC1 did, I sure won't appreciate SP1. In that situation I'd seriously would consider to install XP instead.Ulf BCore2Duo X6800 3.3GHz4GB RAM Corsair XMS2-8500C5BFG 8800GTX, Creative SB X-FiFSX Acc/SP2, Vista 32

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"How long will it take for SP1 to come on the Vista distribution media?"I assume you're looking for retail copies of Vista with SP1. According to my research, they won't become available tomorrow but should start showing up on shelves "in the coming months". Best bet is to install Vista and then download SP1 (if you have the Internet connection to do that w/o many problems). As far as I know, there will NOT be any individual CD/DVD with just SP1 on it that you can order. You'll only have the option to buy Vista w/SP1 or buy Vista and download SP1 or have Vista updated through the automatic update program.Jim

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In the past with new SP such as the ones for XP I formatted and reinstalled. This seamed to get rid of the bloat that occures with the constant updating of windows. I'm wondering if with Vista I shouldn't just uninstall all the updates to date and then load SP-1.Also in the MS download site there is a DX update that shows it's for Vista as well as every other OS. Any idea what this is about?http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details...&DisplayLang=en

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"... and that SP-1 really will solve some of the FSX problems, particularly the ones some Graphics Card people are allegedly blaming on the present version of Vista. Did I make that vague enough? Comments (non provocative) invited."I finally got SP1 installed, ran FSX, and as expected, I didn't see any improvements or DX10 Preview fixes. I had to keep running the "Windows Update" and everytime I did, it would install another update. Finally, the 67MB update was downloaded and installed. My 3dMark06 benchmark went up about 40 points. SP1 is installed though and IMHO it needs to be installed if you have Vista. Perhaps NVIDIA was waiting for this release before issuing new drivers but doubt it. I saw a beta 174.53 was released today but it's only for the 9600 and 9800 series. Hope this was "non provocative"....Best regards,Jim

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Jim;Geez, I guess I will never live that "non-provocative" thing down :( . It was poor wording on my part. What I was trying to convey was that I did not want to start an NVidia or Vista flame thread, just to exchange information. Thanks for the input. I haven't gotten the SP-1 download offered as an auto-update on my computer yet-I understand that if you have certain (unidentified) hardware, it will not be available until April 15th. Don't know if I fall in that category or not.Your results were about what I had come to expect after reading the blogs, the comments here, and the article I referred to in the paper. I do plan to go ahead and install it though, because if I don't, I know something will bite me some day in the future because it is missing.Regards,Thrakete

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"I haven't gotten the SP-1 download offered as an auto-update on my computer..." Thrakete,I wasn't offered it either. I had to constantly open Windows Update and check for updates. There's also a direct link to the update (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b0c7136d-5ebb-413b-89c9-cb3d06d12674&DisplayLang=en). I have never heard about the certain unidentified hardware requirement.Best regards,Jim

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Jim:RE:>>I have never heard about the "certain unidentified hardware" requirement.<http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_sp1.asp)You could probably also find it quickly with Google and "Paul Thurrott".I think it would be worth your time to read it even though you now already have SP-1. He (Paul Thurrott) explains the whole picture in detail.Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.Regards,Thrakete

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I seen maybe 1-2 fps improvement, but overall stability is better. the system as a whole 'feels' better and smoother.just waiting for nvidia to get their act together.

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1. Under the heading of "Things to know before you download Windows Vista SP-1" Microsoft lists the following (this is only a partial quote, typos would be mine):"Microsoft strongly advises using Windows Update to download and install Windows SP-1 on single pc's."---------Download size comparison of stand-alone SP-1 vs Windows Update download of SP-1 is discussed next, then i think the most significant statement in the blurb:"Windows update will recognize pc's with known problematic drivers and postpone downloading Windows SP-1 until the pc has updated drivers or other applicable updates. Using Windows Update will help insure you have the most trouble-free update possible"2. My Graphics card is an NVidia 8600 GT, using the latest NVidia recommended drivers.3. Windows update is active on my pc and on automatic. However, it has not made Vista SP-1 available for installation-at least not yet.Have some of you with identical cards and drivers installed SP-1 through Windows update?In any case, I am leaning toward following the Microsoft recommendation. "Trouble-free" seems like a good idea right now, especially since the system is running well without Vista SP-1.Thanks,regards,Thrakete

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