It has been some time (nearly 1.5 years) since I took the PMDG 777F for a spin in P3Dv4, so my first look at the MSFS 2020 version was a mental exercise as I tried to remember the "flow" of setting up a short test flight (when compared to the PMDG 737). Whilst I managed to get it up and down in one piece, it was not one of my best landings! I noticed a handful of things during the setup and subsequent flight that are worth mentioning here....

• I noticed a CHECKLIST INCOMPLETE NORMAL (or something like that) FMC message flash up on the EICAS display. Never saw that one in P3D.
• Take off TRIM setting (no cargo; MEDIUM fuel load) was calculated at 6.00. It was 2.50 in P3D
• Vref was calculated as 143 knots. It was 137 knots in P3D.
• V1/Vr/V2 all seemed to be significantly higher than I remember in P3D. V2 was calculated at 155 knots, which I think is at least 10 knots higher than that in P3D Not sure why there is such a big difference....
• Take off (and landing) distance seemed to be quite excessive when compared to P3D (same power settings; presumably similar weights, although those V speeds made me wonder).
• Never saw any indication of thrust reduction at 1500 feet, even though it is set in the FMS (to be fair, this is quite often a thrust INCREASE at the light weights I operate at).
• Interesting confirmation of the RNAV procedure, as pressing APP resulted in nothing happening on the FMA (and a failed landing attempt as I wondered what was going on) I assume this is because the 777 does not have IAN capability? I tried again using LNAV and VNAV, and it worked fine. However, this seems to be essentially the same as a visual approach?? You know, the one where you enter the distance and glideslope manually. It makes me wonder how I did them in P3D, but I honestly cannot remember!
• The aircraft feels nice and heavy when compared to the 737, and it was this that made the landing "less than optimal"

Edited February 16, 20251 yr by Christopher Low

1 hour ago, Christopher Low said:

It has been some time (nearly 1.5 years) since I took the PMDG 777F for a spin in P3Dv4, so my first look at the MSFS 2020 version was a mental exercise as I tried to remember the "flow" of setting up a short test flight (when compared to the PMDG 737). Whilst I managed to get it up and down in one piece, it was not one of my best landings! I noticed a handful of things during the setup and subsequent flight that are worth mentioning here....

• I noticed a CHECKLIST INCOMPLETE NORMAL (or something like that) FMC message flash up on the EICAS display. Never saw that one in P3D.
• Take off TRIM setting (no cargo; MEDIUM fuel load) was calculated at 6.00. It was 2.50 in P3D
• Vref was calculated as 143 knots. It was 137 knots in P3D.
• V1/Vr/V2 all seemed to be significantly higher than I remember in P3D. V2 was calculated at 155 knots, which I think is at least 10 knots higher than that in P3D Not sure why there is such a big difference....
• Take off (and landing) distance seemed to be quite excessive when compared to P3D (same power settings; presumably similar weights, although those V speeds made me wonder).
• Never saw any indication of thrust reduction at 1500 feet, even though it is set in the FMS (to be fair, this is quite often a thrust INCREASE at the light weights I operate at).
• Interesting confirmation of the RNAV procedure, as pressing APP resulted in nothing happening on the FMA (and a failed landing attempt as I wondered what was going on) I assume this is because the 777 does not have IAN capability? I tried again using LNAV and VNAV, and it worked fine. However, this seems to be essentially the same as a visual approach?? You know, the one where you enter the distance and glideslope manually. It makes me wonder how I did them in P3D, but I honestly cannot remember!
• The aircraft feels nice and heavy when compared to the 737, and it was this that made the landing "less than optimal"

• This indicates you missed something in the center lower display for the Normal Checklist Procedures
• 6.00 does seem a bit off.  I am usually 3.0-5.5 depending on load and 5.5 is MTOW 
• Again, tough to say unless the ZFW and TOW were exactly the same in both sime
• Same as above
• Hmmm.  What level of reverse?  If I use reverse to 80 kts and then manually brake rollout "seems" pretty accurate and I use the same turnoffs as real life
• Not sure on the thrust reduction, I've normally disco'd AP/AT by then but darn your OCD is observant 🙂 
• Hmmm.  I do use LNAV/VNAV then LOC/APP with no issues but would have to try RNAV, I don't personally know on IAN so don't want to misspeak.  Lot's of smarter people than me here 🙂 
• It does have a really good feel to it 🙂  both on the ground and in the air.  Any landing you an walk away from LOL 😂

Hope you enjoyed it!

49 minutes ago, psolk said:

•  
• Hmmm.  I do use LNAV/VNAV then LOC/APP with no issues but would have to try RNAV, I don't personally know on IAN so don't want to misspeak.  Lot's of smarter people than me here 🙂 
•  

From a lot of reading and watching YouTube, as far as I can tell, the 777 does not have IAN. So LNAV/VNAV is the way to go, personally I raise the set altitude to go around once below MDA. Have seen some that set field elevation though.

That's now also how I do it on the 737, unless I am actively using IAN.

 

G

Now we talk RNAV/RNP (LNAV/VNAV) or RNP0.10/.30 and the 777. 

I guess not every one of these in the world is allowed even with long runways or obstacle's but is this clear in the airliner SOP's?

And what is the criteria if not allowed?

I have tried alot the RNP into KSFO28L and R and sometimes my controls is effecting the outcome. I am beginning to disconnect my hardware if not used for the flight. Phantom input still is a deal and to be fair my controls setup has expand a bit over the years.

I think i will buy some USB3 hubs with a physically on/off switch for every input connected for easy operation.

Thanks Michael Moe

Edited February 16, 20251 yr by Michael Moe

48 minutes ago, Michael Moe said:

Now we talk RNAV/RNP (LNAV/VNAV) or RNP0.10/.30 and the 777. 

I guess not every one of these in the world is allowed even with long runways or obstacle's but is this clear in the airliner SOP's?

And what is the criteria if not allowed?

I have tried alot the RNP into KSFO28L and R and sometimes my controls is effecting the outcome. I am beginning to disconnect my hardware if not used for the flight. Phantom input still is a deal and to be fair my controls setup has expand a bit over the years.

I think i will buy some USB3 hubs with a physically on/off switch for every input connected for easy operation.

Thanks Michael Moe

Forgot about the (AR) part but crew also needs speciale autorisation and training and also RF legs is part of these RNP AR approaches. Not sure the 777 can do those in real life or all of them.

Michael Moe 

Edited February 16, 20251 yr by Michael Moe

5 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

It has been some time (nearly 1.5 years) since I took the PMDG 777F for a spin in P3Dv4, so my first look at the MSFS 2020 version was a mental exercise as I tried to remember the "flow" of setting up a short test flight (when compared to the PMDG 737). Whilst I managed to get it up and down in one piece, it was not one of my best landings! I noticed a handful of things during the setup and subsequent flight that are worth mentioning here....

• I noticed a CHECKLIST INCOMPLETE NORMAL (or something like that) FMC message flash up on the EICAS display. Never saw that one in P3D.
• Take off TRIM setting (no cargo; MEDIUM fuel load) was calculated at 6.00. It was 2.50 in P3D
• Vref was calculated as 143 knots. It was 137 knots in P3D.
• V1/Vr/V2 all seemed to be significantly higher than I remember in P3D. V2 was calculated at 155 knots, which I think is at least 10 knots higher than that in P3D Not sure why there is such a big difference....
• Take off (and landing) distance seemed to be quite excessive when compared to P3D (same power settings; presumably similar weights, although those V speeds made me wonder).
• Never saw any indication of thrust reduction at 1500 feet, even though it is set in the FMS (to be fair, this is quite often a thrust INCREASE at the light weights I operate at).
• Interesting confirmation of the RNAV procedure, as pressing APP resulted in nothing happening on the FMA (and a failed landing attempt as I wondered what was going on) I assume this is because the 777 does not have IAN capability? I tried again using LNAV and VNAV, and it worked fine. However, this seems to be essentially the same as a visual approach?? You know, the one where you enter the distance and glideslope manually. It makes me wonder how I did them in P3D, but I honestly cannot remember!
• The aircraft feels nice and heavy when compared to the 737, and it was this that made the landing "less than optimal"

- This appears if you are fully configured but haven't completed the landing checklist
- 2.5 seems very wrong. I think that's even outside the green band? So 6.0 might be more correct
- It was the same landing weight? And you remember the Vref from 1.5 years ago...?
- As above. As for an actual answer: Simbrief gives the same numbers as the 777, so that's definitely correct.
- Takeoff distance is spot on; and Simbrief is even more conservative than the 777 EFB.
- Thrust reduction only happens if you takeoff with VNAV engaged. Not 100% sure if that's a bug or correct behaviour
- There's no IAN or FINAL APP mode on the 777. You just use LNAV and VNAV without hitting the APP button
- The 777 lands quite a bit differently, yes. You have to pull up much less than with the 737, at least on my side

14 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

- This appears if you are fully configured but haven't completed the landing checklist
- 2.5 seems very wrong. I think that's even outside the green band? So 6.0 might be more correct
- It was the same landing weight? And you remember the Vref from 1.5 years ago...?
- As above. As for an actual answer: Simbrief gives the same numbers as the 777, so that's definitely correct.
- Takeoff distance is spot on; and Simbrief is even more conservative than the 777 EFB.
- Thrust reduction only happens if you takeoff with VNAV engaged. Not 100% sure if that's a bug or correct behaviour
- There's no IAN or FINAL APP mode on the 777. You just use LNAV and VNAV without hitting the APP button
- The 777 lands quite a bit differently, yes. You have to pull up much less than with the 737, at least on my side

• That CHECKLIST INCOMPLETE NORMAL message on the EICAS display appeared as I was configuring the FMC when still parked at the gate!
• 2.50 was inside the green band, but it was close to the top. I did wonder at the time regarding how close it was to being outside the limit, but I assumed that it was because I was flying the plane in an unusual configuration (empty with a 2/3 fuel load).
• I assumed that the weight of the 777F in MSFS would be the same as the P3D version. These are only very short flight tests, so the weights are basically the same. I do not remember the actual weights in the P3D version, but I am not sure why they would be different.....
• Maybe the V1/Vr/V2 speeds were all incorrect in the P3D version? They did seem quite low for such a large aircraft.
• Maybe the runway performance of the P3D version was not entirely realistic?
• I always take off with LNAV and VNAV engaged, but it is just possible that I forgot to do that for this particular flight test. I will have another look.
• Thanks for the clarification that the 777 does not have IAN capability.
• I remember the flare being a bit strange in the P3D version of the 777, so it will be interesting to see how the MSFS version handles after I have performed a few practice landings.

Edited February 17, 20251 yr by Christopher Low

Personally, I find the B777 more enjoyable to fly in MSFS than I did (or recall) from P3D. From repainting liveries, the exterior model is not the same aircraft it was in P3D...it has definitely been reworked...the LNAV has also definitely been improved for the MSFS version and no doubt other systems as well.

Cockpit graphics have also improved on the MSFS version, although, the triple 7 still seems to be a "bland" cockpit.

While I think the EFB could be improved (fitting Navigraph charts into a small pane)...it is what it is.

It's been years since I've flown the B777 in P3D...I seem to recall the aircraft would "float" on flair during landing...haven't experienced this with the 773 nor the 77F in MSFS.

V1, Vr and V2 speeds definitely feel like an improvement on the MSFS version.

Right now, my only "gripe" about the aircraft is taxi thrust on the ground...no matter the load (empty or full), my experience is that there is really no way to control ground speed. (Don't know if that's what the real aircraft feels like...watching the "real thing" at my local airport and I don't witness the "surge taxiing" that I have to do in the sim with this aircraft.) Somehow, it just doesn't feel like a heavy on the ground (compared to say the iniBuilds A300 which is no where near the weight of a loaded 777).

any idea about the 777  yoke in FS2020 being stuck (left side) from the start, cloud and dark. Other controls frozen too.

16 hours ago, rmeier said:

It's been years since I've flown the B777 in P3D...I seem to recall the aircraft would "float" on flair during landing...haven't experienced this with the 773 nor the 77F in MSFS.

V1, Vr and V2 speeds definitely feel like an improvement on the MSFS version.

Right now, my only "gripe" about the aircraft is taxi thrust on the ground...no matter the load (empty or full), my experience is that there is really no way to control ground speed. (Don't know if that's what the real aircraft feels like...watching the "real thing" at my local airport and I don't witness the "surge taxiing" that I have to do in the sim with this aircraft.) Somehow, it just doesn't feel like a heavy on the ground (compared to say the iniBuilds A300 which is no where near the weight of a loaded 777).

I experienced the exact opposite of "floating" when landing the 777F in P3D. I always found that pulling back on the yoke to flare did not always work quite as well as I was hoping. I never updated the P3D version to include the revised ground handling model, as I liked the way it felt nice and heavy during turns when taxiing.

Your comments about the MSFS version not feeling heavy on the ground are a bit disconcerting. The two test flights that I have completed to date in MSFS were "runway to runway" affairs, so ground handling on the taxiway and through turns is not something that I have experienced yet. The 737 feels reasonable to me on the ground, although it too feels a bit light at times.

Edited February 18, 20251 yr by Christopher Low

I also took the 777-300 for a run tonight on 2020 using FS2Crew. Flawless operation and performance. Like it a lot. And 2020 still looks great even better in some areas than 2024. So it looks like I'll be using both sims for a while if I want to fly PMDG. 

Another test flight, and I am getting closer to the P3D numbers.

• Take off TRIM setting (no cargo; SHORT RANGE fuel load) was calculated at 3.50
• Vref was calculated as 137 knots
• V2 was only 140 knots
• Take off and landing distance were much closer to what I remember in P3D
• I am still not seeing any obvious thrust reduction at 1500 feet. LNAV and VNAV were enabled before departure, and THR REF visible on the FMA

My next test will be at a 50% fuel load, which I think is what the MEDIUM RANGE setting was in P3D (not 66.6% as it is in MSFS 2020). The point of these tests is that I want to have good runway performance with a reasonable fuel load, so that I can operate in and out of a few extra airports in my addon database.

As Kevin Bridges would say....."that's the way I play the game. That's how I roll"