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rstough

Aerobus in USA

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Are there many A319, A320 and A321 flying regionally in US? If there are any, lol, what is the approximate share of B737s, MD80s and A320s (19to21)?Thanks.

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According to Airbus themselves there are 815 aircraft from the 320 family operating in North America (incl. Canada):http://www.airbus.com/en/corporate/orders_and_deliveries/I have found the following figures as of 31 May on WikiPedia:Frontier Airlines 62JetBlue Airways 107Northwest Airlines 130Pegasus Aviation 1Skybus Airlines 10Spirit Airlines 34United Airlines 152US Airways 196USA 3000 Airlines 10Virgin America 22Only answers part of your question: "... If there are any, lol,..", but it should get you started! ;-)

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Thank you so much, guys. The numbers are much bigger than I could imagine. How did they (particularly A320 series) get in such an abundant and competeing market Any comments? Thanks.

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>Thank you so much, guys. The numbers are much bigger than I>could imagine. How did they (particularly A320 series) get in>such an abundant and competeing market Any comments? >>Thanks.That's a loaded and controversial question...United took the A320 as the NG 737s weren't available yet. I think this was behind Northwest's reasoning to an extent.Of course there are some who say that Airbus will give HUGE discounts (perhaps even cutting into profit) to get the sale and the market share.Other airlines consider the A320 family to be the better buy. The A320 family cabin is a bit wider than the 737NG family.In the coming 24 months, fuel efficiency will be paramount, I don't know if the A320 has much advantage here as so many 737 and A320 variants use the CFM56 family of engines.

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I love that website....I wonder how things will change when they get the 787 into production. I also wonder if a lot of the enhancements will be dropped for the sake of fuel efficiency.

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>Are there many A319, A320 and A321 flying regionally in US?>If there are any, lol, what is the approximate share of B737s,>MD80s and A320s (19to21)?>>Thanks.I flew back and forth from KFLL to KIAD on TED A320's a few times last year.

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>I love that website....>>>I wonder how things will change when they get the 787 into>production. I also wonder if a lot of the enhancements will>be dropped for the sake of fuel efficiency.To the best of my knowledge, the 787 will fit into a larger capacity market (190 seat and up) than the 737 and A320 series (110-190 seat typically).RhettFS box: E8500 (@ 3.80 ghz), AC Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64ASX Client: AMD 3700+ (@ 2.6 ghz), 7800GT

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Air Canada flies the Airbus. Currently, they have 2x A340-300, 8x A330-300, 10x A321, 41x A320, and 35x A319's. I've been on the A340 cross-country, and it's a nice ride, although I bet it would be better a) if I sat in 1st class and :( if Air Canada dropped their tradition of continuously losing my luggage. Still, the long range of the A340 means that you aren't going to be making stopovers along the way.I've also been on the A321, the A320, and the A319. The same comments apply, except that the smaller planes have no first class, they have shorter range, and the A319's, although well-maintained, are getting old.From what I recall, Air Canada's acquisition of the Airbus was due to sale pricing from Airbus coupled with hardball lobbyist pressure from the European manufacturers. Also, a little (alleged) political kickback goes a long way -- please see this interesting article on Canada's "Airbus Scandal":http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_affairIn the States, I imagine the Boeing lobbyists fight hammer and tongs with the Airbus lobbyists to gain gov't concessions for American air carriers. I can only imagine how the Airbus made it into the FSX box given Microsoft's proximity to Boeing. I also imagine the proposed Dreamliner ought to cut something of a swath into the air travel market, at least if the hype is to be believed. Lighter aircraft, higher fuel efficiency, more advanced cabin technology are all things that may go in Boeing's favour. However, not even Boeing can control outside market forces like the price of fuel, the taxes on tickets, security and terrorist issues, political motivations, and other concerns that make air travel less attractive to the average flying consumer. Jeff ShylukAssistant Managing EditorSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

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>I can only imagine how the Airbus made>it into the FSX box given Microsoft's proximity to Boeing. Easy. Boeing paid them to include it. But with the caveat that they make it hard to fly and almost impossible to land, so that people will think the real one is too... :)Colin

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>>Thank you so much, guys. The numbers are much bigger than I>>could imagine. How did they (particularly A320 series) get>in>>such an abundant and competeing market Any comments? >>>>Thanks.>>That's a loaded and controversial question...>And also an answer without any context.The number of aircraft flying on any given day in the US and Canadian market has got to be 10x the market share of Airbus (not casting aspersions on the aircraft ... rather, I'm just noting the entrenched nature of Boeing in this market).Without context, knowing that there are 800+ Airbus in the air really doesn't tell you much.

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>>>Thank you so much, guys. The numbers are much bigger than>Without context, knowing that there are 800+ Airbus in the air>really doesn't tell you much.You can easily get the context by (as suggested above) looking at the numbers of the aircrafts airborn any moment on FlightAware and comparing them across the types you are interested in. That's what impressed me in the first place. Without this context your comment doesn't add anything to this thread.

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Dirk,I was searching for some context. As I said, knowing that there are x numbers of Airbus in the air doesn't really tell you anything unless you know how that compares to the numbers of Boeing craft flying.Unfortunately, the data on FlightAware isn't formatted in a way that makes counting the total number of aircraft by a given manufacturer flying at any given moment (at least in a convenient way.)That's the context I'm looking for ... a comparison by manufacturer, specifically how many Airbus are flying on a given day in the US and Canada and how that compares to the number of Boeing craft flying on a given day in the US and Canada.I'm just curious. And, I think that's relevant to the discussion at hand. My theory is that there are 10x more Boeing craft in the air, and that Airbus hasn't made significant gains in the market for aircraft in the US and Canada beyond their initial introduction numbers that were due mostly to timing (and not quality comparisons.)I could be wrong, that's why I'm hunting for that data.Does anyone have that contextual data?Cheers,

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Drew,Yes, I'm aware that you can sort by aircraft type. That's different than filtering by manufacturer. This was exactly my point. That site makes it difficult to do an Airbus vs. Boeing count.It's possible if you start adding up numbers. It's also not convenient.Cheers,

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>Drew,>>Yes, I'm aware that you can sort by aircraft type. That's>different than filtering by manufacturer. This was exactly my>point. That site makes it difficult to do an Airbus vs. Boeing>count.>>It's possible if you start adding up numbers. It's also not>convenient.>>Cheers,How hard can it be? I just did it in less than 5 minutes.Boeing 1698Airbus 666McDonnell Douglas 312 (in case you want to count them, also.)i stopped counting when I got to aircraft types with only 1 in the air. This was 1030pm East Coast time.EwingKATLAlcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a store, not a government agency.MSI K8N Neo2 PlatinumAMD Opteron 185 2.6 Ghz Dual Core2GB Kingston HyperX (2X1GB) Dual Channel DDR 2-3-2-6 @ 1TXFX nVIDIA GeForce 7900 GS 256MB DDR3 AGPSound Blaster Audigy LSSilverStone Decathlon 750W +12v@60A +5v@30AFS9.1 on WinXPPro (SP1)

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>>Drew,>>>>Yes, I'm aware that you can sort by aircraft type. That's>>different than filtering by manufacturer. This was exactly>my>>point. That site makes it difficult to do an Airbus vs.>Boeing>>count.>>>>It's possible if you start adding up numbers. It's also not>>convenient.>>>>Cheers,>>How hard can it be? I just did it in less than 5 minutes.>>Boeing 1698>Airbus 666>McDonnell Douglas 312 (in case you want to count them, also.)>>>i stopped counting when I got to aircraft types with only 1 in>the air. This was 1030pm East Coast time.>Yeh, and that was exactly my point. Wasn't too hard to get that context for my surpise. The ratio of A320 vs. B737 and B757 looks really impressive, Never thought there were so many in US. Looks like a free market yet with all the understandable protectionism. :)Thanks Eek.

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If your protectionism claim were entirely true, then the presence of 747-400s would be higher among major US and Canada based carriers. Instead, notice the number of a33x planes that Northwest and US Air operates.The decision for airbus for many carriers extends beyond timing and introductory sweetheart buys. Each carrier fancies that it has some angle or niche, and their key city pairs from hub to other major national and international markets comprises a unique tasking to which one aircraft may be better than the other. Even if the aircraft are fairly equal, political and economic influences situated in the time of the purchase decision is a factor as well.In support of MissionGuy's theory, we can't assume that all of the Arbuses on flight aware are North American operators, this is especially true of any B744, B77x, A33x and A34x entries you see. However, anything showing up in the A32x family is likely a North American operation.However, the 10x figure is likely not true, this is especially evident when you take regional jets into account.Here's whats poking around the sky at Saturday 07:46AM EDT, June 28th, 2008:17.08% 290 Airbus13.55% 230 CanadaAir14.37% 244 Embraer43.76% 743 Boeing11.25% 191 Boeing/McDonnellDouglas100.00% 1698 Since Boeing is an American company and since the word "protectionism" has been brandished in this discussion, let's consider market share:17% of the aircraft being tracked are Airbus, the majority of which are in the A32x family. While 44% are true Boeing aircraft, the Boeing/McDonnell-Douglas combo puts the American manufacturer at 55% of the commerical aircraft airborne at this early hour. Of course, I should take a read of this later in the day, but these ratios are worth considering at any point.I'll lump CanadaAir as "foreign" since Boeing v. Airbus seems to be the flavor of this discussion. We also have to be careful as all these Boeings are not necessarily American operators.So if I rework the numbers to consider only short-to-medium range, non-RJ aircraft, we see this:32.54% 191 A320x41.57% 244 B737x25.89% 152 McDonnell-Douglas DC9x,MD8x,MD9x100.00% 587 So, yes, the American-manufactured aircraft, at this early hour on a saturday, comprise 2/3rds of what's aloft, but the airbus figure isn't quite 10% either.In the end, I would agree that it is hard to conclusively determine the exact nature of North-american-registered aircraft based on flightaware's data. What of aircraft in storage? We also can't capture the entire fleet from this snapshot data. If we were paying for longitudinal data from flight-aware we might be able to compile a more complete picture.

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Well, considering that the data lives on a computer, and I'm using a computer, seems like a well-designed site would do that math for me, since that's what computers are designed to do ... you know, math.It took about 5 minutes for you to do it. That's an eternity in today's competitive marketplace. I never said it couldn't be done, I said that the site was poorly designed to do it. It's designed to show you numbers by aircraft model, not aircraft manufacturer, when it could easily be designed to do both.If you had to stop for five minutes every time you wanted to compare that data meaningfully (and, you do know what I mean by meaningfully, don't you?) well ... that would take forever, right?But, since you did it, you would see that (at least during your snapshot period) Boeing has a 3-1 advantage in the US and Canadian market over Airbus and that Airbus isn't continuing to sell well into this market beyond its initial orders.I suspect that's because Boeing delivers a better product.Cheers,

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>If your protectionism claim were entirely true...My protectionism claim, did I really claim anything? Otherwise interesting info, thanks.

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>Well, considering that the data lives on a computer, and I'm>using a computer, seems like a well-designed site would do>that math for me, since that's what computers are designed to>do ... you know, math.>>It took about 5 minutes for you to do it. That's an eternity>in today's competitive marketplace. I never said it couldn't>be done, I said that the site was poorly designed to do it.>It's designed to show you numbers by aircraft model, not>aircraft manufacturer, when it could easily be designed to do>both.>>If you had to stop for five minutes every time you wanted to>compare that data meaningfully (and, you do know what I mean>by meaningfully, don't you?) well ... that would take forever,>right?>>But, since you did it, you would see that (at least during>your snapshot period) Boeing has a 3-1 advantage in the US and>Canadian market over Airbus and that Airbus isn't continuing>to sell well into this market beyond its initial orders.>>I suspect that's because Boeing delivers a better product.>>Cheers,What's your point in respect to the question asked in this thread? You got any data you could share or at least any comments regarding number of Airbus in NA?Cheers,Dirk.

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>Well, considering that the data lives on a computer, and I'm>using a computer, seems like a well-designed site would do>that math for me, since that's what computers are designed to>do ... you know, math.Since you're on a computer, you could, you know, send them an email and ask them to add that feature. It probably never occured to them that anyone would be interested in that type of data.>It took about 5 minutes for you to do it. That's an eternity>in today's competitive marketplace. I never said it couldn't>be done, I said that the site was poorly designed to do it.>It's designed to show you numbers by aircraft model, not>aircraft manufacturer, when it could easily be designed to do>both.Competitive marketplace? I wasn't aware they had any competition. Since most of it's customers are just there for fun, and for free, I really don't see your point. Yes, it took about 5 minutes. I'll bet you spent more time than that typing your post.>If you had to stop for five minutes every time you wanted to>compare that data meaningfully (and, you do know what I mean>by meaningfully, don't you?) well ... that would take forever,>right?No. It took 5 minutes to compile the data that I wasn't really interested in until you brought it up. As to whether it's meaningful depends on who's looking at it. I think it's interesting, but not necessarily meaningful.>But, since you did it, you would see that (at least during>your snapshot period) Boeing has a 3-1 advantage in the US and>Canadian market over Airbus and that Airbus isn't continuing>to sell well into this market beyond its initial orders.As someone mentioned above, many aircraft over the US aren't American, so it really isn't a good indicator of market share. If you want to know that sort of information, you should probably be looking for a financial web site, not an aviation enthusiast website.EwingKATLAlcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a store, not a government agency.MSI K8N Neo2 PlatinumAMD Opteron 185 2.6 Ghz Dual Core2GB Kingston HyperX (2X1GB) Dual Channel DDR 2-3-2-6 @ 1TXFX nVIDIA GeForce 7900 GS 256MB DDR3 AGPSound Blaster Audigy LSSilverStone Decathlon 750W +12v@60A +5v@30AFS9.1 on WinXPPro (SP1)

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