There have been other military parades in the USA over the years, so I don't know what all the controversy is about.

I think it will be cool to see some of the Army's tanks, artillery, missile launchers, and other vehicles on display.

To be honest, I'm not terribly impressed with the Abrams tank as it is outdated and a fuel hog with very limited range due to the gas turbine engine.  To be fair, tanks wouldn't play as big of a role in modern warfare anyway as drones and lighter, faster armored vehicles seem to be the weapons of the future.

Dave

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

To be fair, tanks wouldn't play as big of a role in modern warfare anyway as drones and lighter, faster armored vehicles seem to be the weapons of the future.

This is not a new argument and has been going on for a long time.

For example, the Israelis in the 1967 war found out that sending tanks unsupported by infantry didn't work.  I doubt tanks were very useful in Viet Nam (I haven't studied it).  But the battle of 73 Easting in 1991 was won primarily by tanks.

Tanks are very useful in the situations where they are very useful. They won't go away.  When conditions are right, the battles will still be tank vs tank.  The fact that tanks are not universally useful doesn't matter.

I didn't stop studying warfare when I left the tank unit in 1973.

The military parades are impressive no matter who is doing them. 🙂 

Hook

2 hours ago, LHookins said:

This is not a new argument and has been going on for a long time.

For example, the Israelis in the 1967 war found out that sending tanks unsupported by infantry didn't work.  I doubt tanks were very useful in Viet Nam (I haven't studied it).  But the battle of 73 Easting in 1991 was won primarily by tanks.

Tanks are very useful in the situations where they are very useful. They won't go away.  When conditions are right, the battles will still be tank vs tank.  The fact that tanks are not universally useful doesn't matter.

I didn't stop studying warfare when I left the tank unit in 1973.

The military parades are impressive no matter who is doing them. 🙂 

Hook

 

   It wasn't "Unsupported Infantry"..It was the Egyptian Armies use of the ATGM  Missile, they had just received from the Soviet Union whereas the IDF did not train for defending against their use....in fact they (IDF)had three paratrooper brigades on the ground in the Sinai..It didn't take long for them to adapt and overcome, surrounding the Egyptian Army, forcing their surrender...with armor under General Sharon's leadership...

Edited June 14, 2025Jun 14 by Delta111
Gooder English

2 hours ago, LHookins said:

Tanks are very useful in the situations where they are very useful.

Uh, yeah, OK.

I didn't say that tanks were "going away" or that they aren't useful.  I said that in modern warfare they won't play as big a role.

Dave

9 minutes ago, Delta111 said:

It wasn't "Unsupported Infantry"..It was the Egyptian Armies use of the ATGM  Missile,

Ah, thanks.  That has been taught as "unsupported by infantry" but the ATGM was also supposed to be the end of tanks.  By 1972 we were taught how to deal with ATGMs.  Methods probably developed by the IDF.

Hook

2 hours ago, LHookins said:

For example, the Israelis in the 1967 war found out that sending tanks unsupported by infantry didn't work.

Wasn’t that the 1973 war?

14 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

I said that in modern warfare they won't play as big a role.

And that is the exact argument that has been going on for a long time. 😄 

Bradleys can't directly oppose tanks.  This was brought home to me in a scenario I developed for Steel Beasts.  A force equipped with Soviet equipment was coming down a road in a valley between two hills.  On one hill I had a platoon of Abrams, on the other a platoon of Bradleys.  They were triggered to attack when the opposing force hit a minefield on the road.

In every case where both platoons advanced to hull defilade at the same time I lost the entire Bradley force.  I was finally able to keep the Bradleys alive by advancing the Abrams first and waiting until the opposing tanks were fully engaged before advancing the Bradleys.

Steel Beasts was developed as a training simulation and is used by several countries, but not the USA.  I was able to aid in the development of the sim.

Hook

In the above scenario, all my vehicles were programmed to back away from the crest and move to an alternate firing position upon taking effective return fire.  Everything was automatic except the timing of the advancing of the Bradleys which was triggered manually. 

I wrote several scenarios for that sim demonstrating various techniques like the one above.  The most interesting was turning an entire battalion 90 degrees to attack in a different direction, based on a real world War Story told by my brigade first sergeant about a general doing the same thing with an entire division.  This was considered highly unusual and probably occurred during a training exercise. 😄 

Hook

Edited June 14, 2025Jun 14 by LHookins

I laughed seeing the robo dogs proudly marching in the parade. I said to my wife I wonder if they like treats.

i heard the marching was good.

Edited June 18, 2025Jun 18 by fluffyflops