48 minutes ago, LHookins said:

Google "building market collapse in China"

And?  You aren’t aware it’s a global economy?

7 minutes ago, SayAgain said:

So by your metric that would suggest that California is the best state in the union

GDP per capita normalizes out population, but someone won't like the results... 🙂

Cheers

6 hours ago, martin-w said:

One of the sciences will need more decades.

Good one, LOL!

6 hours ago, martin-w said:

Except that these days, its become corporatism.

Yes, capitalism in the USA especially, has gone a bit too far of late.

1 hour ago, SayAgain said:

Regulated Capitalism Yes, unregulated No. 2008 real estate collapse from unregulated banks

I agree that capitalism must be reasonably regulated.  We've seen how the quest for ever greater profits have corrupted our healthcare and pharmaceutical sectors and resulted in the offshoring of millions of manufacturing jobs.  I also agree that bank deregulation, especially the repeal of the Glass-Steagal Act, resulted in the financial crisis of 2008-9.

This doesn't mean that capitalism is the wrong economic system, however.  It does need to be "tweaked" from time to time.

Dave

15 minutes ago, SayAgain said:

So by your metric that would suggest that California is the best state in the union as it is the most wealthy state, has the highest GDP (by a significant margin), and has the 5th highest median income and 2nd highest growth rate, … so it seems this democratic and diverse state leveraged capitalism better than any other state.

If you take away Silicon Valley, this would no longer be the case.

More and more companies and people are literally fleeing California.

Just as it took decades for California to rise and become so rich, it will take decades for it to fall.

Dave

2 minutes ago, Luke said:

GDP per capita normalizes out population, but someone won't like the results

California being 5th … what’s not to like?  District of Columbia being #1 … and?  How about % of National … California #1 again.  It’s the financially strongest overall state with the highest population.  Seems like you’re hunting for any straw …

How’s GA?

1 minute ago, SayAgain said:

California being 5th … what’s not to like?  District of Columbia being #1 … and?  How about % of National … California #1 again.  It’s the financially strongest overall state with the highest population.  Seems like you’re hunting for any straw …

How’s GA?

Georgia has been growing like crazy for a couple of decades.  Likewise Texas and Florida.

Hundreds of thousands of people have moved to Tennessee from northern States and even California over the past 20 years.

California is stagnant and will eventually decline.  I won't even mention their huge budget deficits.

People go where they and their money are treated best.

Dave

3 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

We've seen how the quest for ever greater profits have corrupted our healthcare

Yes, and NOTHING good is being done about it … just posturing and hand waving putting up some false image for the public to consume while the invasive discovery of what was already known has not made 1 cent difference in my mother’s Soc Sec check.  

I pay $11,092/mo to keep my mother in a Dementia facility with her ridiculous Soc Sec check of $1456/mo as an “offset” … and they have the nerve to force me to go to a Soc Sec facility to “prove” my mother is still alive at 93?  Like they are somehow doing me a big favor?  This IS capitalism combined with stupidity … all they had to do was check my mother’s address I filed on her tax forms and call the facility to determine if she is alive rather than have me waste an entire workday at Soc Sec office … it’s disgusting.

45 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

But the lack of regulation, and also state support for enterprise (as long as you don't challenge the authority of the state) is how they've achieved good growth figures sustainably over many years I believe.

They've achieved this in several ways:

1. Predatory trading practices such as dumping, currency manipulation, theft of intellectual property, high import tariffs, and trade barriers.

2. Huge direct govt. subsidies to their industries.

3. Stupid and greedy American companies who moved their production to China over the past 40 years.

Dave

28 minutes ago, SayAgain said:

So by your metric that would suggest that California is the best state in the union as it is the most wealthy state, has the highest GDP (by a significant margin), and has the 5th highest median income and 2nd highest growth rate, … so it seems this democratic and diverse state leveraged capitalism better than any other state.

I think that's a bit mischievous Rob!  Those metrics may stand by themselves, but they are not entirely a result of state leveraged capitalism by itself I suspect.  

3 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

They've achieved this in several ways:

1. Predatory trading practices such as dumping, currency manipulation, theft of intellectual property, high import tariffs, and trade barriers.

2. Huge direct govt. subsidies to their industries.

3. Stupid and greedy American companies who moved their production to China over the past 40 years.

Dave

Cant disagree with most of that.  I wasn't defending it either, just calling it how I see it.

All of the above actually supports the contention its a supremely capitalist state

4 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

California is stagnant and will eventually decline

So the metric is now “population growth” as defining best state that leveraged Capitalism?   You keep moving the goal posts.  

3 minutes ago, SayAgain said:

So the metric is now “population growth” as defining best state that leveraged Capitalism?   You keep moving the goal posts.  

Perhaps we should debate the question of whether or not capitalism can indeed be leveraged, or whether the statistical outcomes you all quote are actually the result of chance? 

4 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

but they are not entirely a result of state leveraged capitalism by itself I suspect

Then what … being a more diverse state with more tolerance … being more environmental conscious state?  Dave is the one that suggested Capitalism produced wealth so I showed him where all the wealth is … then Dave shifted to population growth as somehow related to what he said about Capitalism.

FYI, I live in Portland OR for 6 years now and California for about 40 years … I know the state and I’m not word not allowed to its population nor production.

How many of you have actually lived in CA for any extended amount of time?

 

3 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

actually the result of chance

You can count me out, I don’t believe in chance or luck only probability.

1 minute ago, SayAgain said:

You can count me out, I don’t believe in chance or luck only probability.

Well then dont we need to identify all the factors in that probability rather than just consider one of them?