Interesting article about Russian incursion of Estonian airspace over the Baltic Sea:

https://themilitaryanalyst.com/2025/11/13/the-real-story-how-nato-ended-russias-estonian-air-incursions/

The hysteria and warmongering rhetoric is getting out of hand lately.

Time to calm down and try to resolve this peacefully.

War is the last thing anyone wants, trust me.

Dave

Very interesting, the conclusion is 100% accurate, Russia understands only strength and power.  This action demonstrated both without any necessity of a shooting war.  The best definition of deterrence available 👍

Interesting article indeed, but I have a slight correction: AWACS are not based in Gielenkirchen near the German/Polish border but in Geilenkirchen near the German/Dutch border. My wife grew up near the base and has seen plenty of AWACS taking off and landing.

Peter

It put a smile on my face for sure :) 
 

9 hours ago, kevinfirth said:

Russia understands only strength and power.

To be fair, NATO should understand strength and power as well.

If another country started putting military bases and missile sites near our border, like NATO did to Russia, we'd be pretty upset, too.  And we wouldn't tolerate it for 2 days, let alone years.

Dave

32 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

To be fair, NATO should understand strength and power as well.

If another country started putting military bases and missile sites near our border, like NATO did to Russia, we'd be pretty upset, too.  And we wouldn't tolerate it for 2 days, let alone years.

Dave

There's a massive difference between offense and defence.  If a NATO country had invaded a sovereign neighbour and conducted itself in the manner Russia has in Ukraine, they'd have every reason to be upset, but that isn't the case.

Irag, Afghanistan, we probably shouldn't have been there IMHO, and we got our behinds strategically spanked, just like the Russians did before us, and we Brits did many decades before that!   

However, with regard to Ukraine, the only language that the aggressor understands is strength of arms and ability to resist.  You don't stop bullies by appeasing them, robust deterrence and active self defence when deterrence doesn't work is the only rational response. (not to mention the least costly in the long run.)

Edited November 14, 2025Nov 14 by kevinfirth

1 hour ago, kevinfirth said:

You don't stop bullies by appeasing them, robust deterrence and active self defence when deterrence doesn't work is the only rational response. (not to mention the least costly in the long run.)

Agreed.  "Speak softly and carry a big stick" is an apt quote by Theodore Roosevelt.  Europe needs to increase its military strength.

I won't argue about Ukraine, but will leave you with the fact that U.S. and European meddling in that country didn't help and was partially responsible for where we are now.

Dave

OK, NO UKRAINE discussions please and stay away from politics!  The Lock or removal of this topic will
come quickly!

16 hours ago, dave2013 said:

Agreed.  "Speak softly and carry a big stick" is an apt quote by Theodore Roosevelt.  Europe needs to increase its military strength.

I won't argue about Ukraine, but will leave you with the fact that U.S. and European meddling in that country didn't help and was partially responsible for where we are now.

Dave

Or to missquote from Cheech and Chong, !Walk softly and carry a big stink!"

15 hours ago, Jude Bradley said:

Or to missquote from Cheech and Chong, !Walk softly and carry a big stink!"

 

That's hilarious!

I saw you're from Ireland. One of my favorite exchanges was when Cheech was riding in some area around East LA with his cousin, and the cousin's having a flashback from Nam, something like:

- Claymores.

- What?

- Claymores.

- Get me up past that last hutch there and jettison me into the paddies.

- What are you talking about paddies, man? Ain't no paddies. They're just Chicanos, man.

- What are you talking about?

- Strike that line chatter, grunt.

- If you'd deploy a little recon, you'd see that Charlie has us surrounded.

- Charlie?

- Oh, man. It's a cop.

I was imagining though if Eurasia were a bit more like North America. Like you could just hop into a campervan in Western Europe and head straight out to the Urals, Lake Baikal, the limestone hills at Guilin, the deserts and canyons of Central Asia etc. relativley safe, just camp anywhere you want, no red tape getting across the entire megacontinent, including all of Africa as well of course.

True enough. The Americas are just so diverse in nature. I can understand why some North Americans never leave their own country when you have such a wide range of climates. 

Locked.  See the pinned topic at top of this forum.