21 hours ago, Pugilist2 said:

Well said! I agree the default XP12 scenery is definitely showing its age and needs the same level of attention moving forward. I am looking forward to seeing what Laminar comes up with. 

One of the best things about default LR scenery is the Gateway system in which hundreds of "artists" spend countless hours updating airports to current visual accuracy.  Yes the library assets are still limited, but the accuracy of taxiways, tarmacs, building placement, navaids, and other airport-related features is excellent.

What matters is that we all LOVE X-Plane and use it after all, and want it to become even better, and that's it!

Edited December 10, 2025Dec 10 by jcomm

2 hours ago, blingthinger said:

You seem to consistently misinterpret my comments and blow them out of proportion

From the perspective of an MSFS 2020/2024 user since those products were released, I once described XP12 ground scenery as 'awful'.  In this very thread you referred to that with this.

13 hours ago, blingthinger said:

A couple months ago I could swear you were using words that alluded to a physiological revulsion.

I think that covers blowing comments out of proportion.

 

3 hours ago, Patco Lch said:

I’m just three months into XPlane12 now from primarily using P3DV5.4. I ventured over because I wanted the most realistic flight model available and have been delighted with everything else this platform offers in spite of underwhelming default ground scenery.

This is exactly the point. If everything else were equal between MSFS 2024 and XP12, nobody would choose XP12 based solely on ground scenery — XP12 would sit at the lower end of the quality scale, with MSFS at the upper end. However, XP12 does many other things very well, and despite its weaker ground scenery, its overall score still lands in the upper range.

 

The whole discussion about the appearance of scenery in XP (compared to MSFS), and whether it's necessary or not, reminds me of other debates that concern a completely different hobby of mine, board games (mainly Euro games).
There, too, if a game is excellent but its graphics are simply ugly, discussions begin.
After all, a game will hold its own with its excellent mechanics, strategic solutions, etc., so the graphics aren't important.
In the other camp, there are people who look at the game as a whole, arguing that, basically, since people don't need eye-pleasing graphics, why not just focus on entering numbers into an Excel spreadsheet, because the (perfect) game mechanics themselves allow for that ?
Those are just my silly associations.
Sorry for straying off topic...  😉

I noticed small changes in the scenery already, coastlines are much better and main roads seem to have changed. Looking forward to the future updates with the scenery.

I wish X-Plane would update the avionics like MSFS, and love the flight planner Working Title Sim has done...

X-Plane has been getting better and better every year!

3 hours ago, blingthinger said:

@UrgentSiesta You should follow his example. You seem to consistently misinterpret my comments and blow them out of proportion just as he does internally (and hilariously sees the need to publicly announce his decision which is a behavior I last saw in elementary school).

All I said earlier was effectively that DCS scenery is still rather similar in appearance to current xp12. And it is. Look at any YT video out there now for their upcoming Balkan map. They have grass now at airports? yay. Downtown cities are still literally cubes on ortho tiles. Oh they have air-conditioners on the roofs now? yay. Hardly signs of a scenery engine overhaul. And who knows...maybe they don't even need to overhaul it. Maybe they're simply under-utilizing it.

I never once suggested that LR shouldn't overhaul theirs. In fact, I stated rather the opposite: that nobody is screaming that LR is wasting their resources. Yet you somehow saw fit to dump a wall of luddite accusations. So bizarre. In the past you scream about native ortho and I merely quote LR responses to that demand and you respond with luddite accusations. So bizarre.

There, there, dear…it’s okay  

Yes, it must all be MY fault that you can’t effectively communicate your own points.

youre SO aggrieved and put upon 

except for the fact that I have reasonable discussions with so many other reasonable people. 

except for you. 

which rather points the arrow back at yourself, then, no?

if you’re going to make hardline statements, then be prepared for hardline push back. 

5 minutes ago, Xflyboy said:

I wish X-Plane would update the avionics like MSFS, and love the flight planner Working Title Sim has done...

X-Plane has been getting better and better every year!

IIRC, the X(G)1000 just got a few updates. 

and it appears as though the Airbus A330 continues to receive attention.

I do think Asobo have done a great job getting their avionics to a very good state, based on what I’ve read. Tho I’m still a steam gauge dinosaur at heart, so I wouldn’t be able to say what shortcomings the X1000 has…?

I kinda feel like the license to use the X1000/other avionics should come with a requirement that any improvements go back into the base “open source” build that any/every developer can use.

it seems silly that each developer should have to face the prospect of rebuilding industry standard avionics for each aircraft they re-create. 

35 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

IIRC, the X(G)1000 just got a few updates.

I spent some time with MSFS 2024 last night and tried the default Vision Jet. I was genuinely impressed by the level of detail and functionality in the instrumentation, it’s certainly more sophisticated than what you typically see in most default, and even some payware, XP12 aircraft.

That said, a few things reminded me why I tend to prefer XP12 overall. The atmosphere in MSFS, especially the clouds and lighting, didn't feel as natural or cohesive to me, and I found myself missing the way XP12 handles the environment. I also noticed a lack of ground sensation while taxiing or during the take off roll, and once airborne the aircraft felt a bit muted and less connected to the air.

XP12’s ground scenery is on the weaker side, and I do find it a bit annoying at times. But in the bigger picture, it doesn’t distract much from what I enjoy most about the sim.  Not meant as a direct comparison, just some observations about what resonates with me as a simmer, and why XP12 still feels more convincing in key areas.

3 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

youre SO aggrieved and put upon 

Aggrieved? hahaha. I'm not the one so emotional that simple punctuation suddenly escapes the mind. I only brought that up given the walls of text my simple comments conjure up out of you that really don't address my points and seem to desperately try to distract from what I'm saying. It's all good amigo.

DCS really hasn't done much to 'wow' their user base with ground scenery and they keep coming back for more. MrBits is one additional point of proof of what I'm saying. Historically there's been a consistent market for XP for what it offers beyond the ground scenery and the dev SDK is expansive enough to permit 3rd party solutions to fill in gaps.

I do fear that there will be some blowback for LR when the new scenery engine comes online. Maybe LR has an ace up the sleeve and network-streamed ortho and photogrammetry really will be part of the future roadmap. Their statements here in these forums don't point in that direction though. The potential PR problem when the xbox crowd is considered is that they most certainly (mis) interpret 'streaming scenery engine' in that way.

3 hours ago, blingthinger said:

network-streamed

Thats nice but there are still people in this world who dont have high speed internet or any internet. We live in our bubble.

23 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

Thats nice but there are still people in this world who dont have high speed internet or any internet. We live in our bubble.

Honestly, it doesn’t have to be that way for most people. Starlink satellite internet covers almost the whole globe now, and it’s been great for me. I’ve had it on my UK-based canal narrowboat for three years and consistently get around 200–300 Mbps, sometimes even higher. The latency has dropped over that time too, so even streamed games work really well. I was on iRacing until recently and never had any issues with streaming or lag.”

Edited December 11, 2025Dec 11 by MrBitstFlyer

6 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I spent some time with MSFS 2024 last night and tried the default Vision Jet. I was genuinely impressed by the level of detail and functionality in the instrumentation, it’s certainly more sophisticated than what you typically see in most default, and even some payware, XP12 aircraft.

One of my favorite light business jets and it's better than a lot of payware.

Background: The manufacturer reached out to Microsoft and requested for it to be included in the default lineup. I'd assume to get users as well as potential customers familiar with it. They did a partnership with FlightFX. From the interview I saw, Cirrus' CEO was happy with the final product.

 

4 hours ago, blingthinger said:

Aggrieved? hahaha. I'm not the one so emotional that simple punctuation suddenly escapes the mind. I only brought that up given the walls of text my simple comments conjure up out of you that really don't address my points and seem to desperately try to distract from what I'm saying. It's all good amigo.

DCS really hasn't done much to 'wow' their user base with ground scenery and they keep coming back for more. MrBits is one additional point of proof of what I'm saying. Historically there's been a consistent market for XP for what it offers beyond the ground scenery and the dev SDK is expansive enough to permit 3rd party solutions to fill in gaps.

I do fear that there will be some blowback for LR when the new scenery engine comes online. Maybe LR has an ace up the sleeve and network-streamed ortho and photogrammetry really will be part of the future roadmap. Their statements here in these forums don't point in that direction though. The potential PR problem when the xbox crowd is considered is that they most certainly (mis) interpret 'streaming scenery engine' in that way.

Most of my posts are via "smart" phone. So if you don't like the autocorrect, please take it up with Tim Cook. I'll back you up! 🙂

So i'm trying to "desperately distract" when I reference a new flight sim's focus on scenery realism, and YOUR response is, "Prepar3D Fuse isn't a competitor"? And then when I clarify with:

"the point at bringing it into this conversation is that visual fidelity matters, even for Big Boy Real World training."

...you still talk right past it? Yeah, that "misunderstanding" is definitely all YOU, buddy. 🤣

Also you:

"DCS scenery is still rather similar in appearance to current xp12."

"Still looks like XP's autogen. Nearly zero ground clutter. Just cubes plopped on an ortho tile."

"They have grass now at airports? yay. Downtown cities are still literally cubes on ortho tiles. Oh they have air-conditioners on the roofs now? yay. Hardly signs of a scenery engine overhaul."

DCS World:

 

Also you: "DCS really hasn't done much to 'wow' their user base with ground scenery" 🤣

Seems you might be "a little" out of touch outside your bubble.

Now, am I expecting what we see above in XP Next Gen? Nope - LR have to deliver the entire world.

But better meshes so we fly over jagged mountains rather than rounded hills? Absolutely.

Better matched to the actual ground coloration instead of "green farm fields here on the green tropical jungle"? Absolutely.

Better water masking so we see tropical shallows instead of dark drop offs? Absolutely.

Etc.

We'll see how they go, i'm sure it'll be greatly improved over what's available now.

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2025Dec 11 by UrgentSiesta

1 hour ago, mjrhealth said:

Thats nice but there are still people in this world who dont have high speed internet or any internet. We live in our bubble.

I have no reason to think that that will be the default mode. Folks misunderstand "streaming" as network only. The streaming bit is simply talking about how the sim pulls data off of the hard drive.  No huge dsf load-ins every so often. They'll be able to gradually piecemeal the bits and pieces as you move around. I'll be surprised if the hooks are not there to do a network mode, but it's not as if you'll be stuck constantly downloading scenery data from LR servers. My prediction is that network streaming will be a secondary mode if it's in there at all.

 

1 hour ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

latency

How much do you see? Ping times to whatever servers you happen to be joining.