I feel turbulence, experience failures, find actual limits to the model.
Never had those experiences with any other flight sim unless I introduced them.

XP I have no experience with but the others are, to me walking simulators in the air. I never hear of realism, procedures etc with MSFS. Rather how good it looks.
Or the bugs.

The dash 8 for me, says it all.

I found PMDG expensive, very pretty but uninteresting to fly. 

3 hours ago, Zatoichi said:

XP I have no experience with

If you want flight fidelity assuming you mean physics then XP12 is your game. You don’t have to spend much on addons and even the default planes are good. Some nice payware level birds for free like ZIBO and Levelup. Ground scenery is kind of bland but made up for in spades with great default airports. The in game live weather system and graphics are a delight. LOL like me you might find out just how bad your stick and rudder skills actually are.

5 hours ago, Zatoichi said:

I I never hear of realism, procedures etc with MSFS. 

What are you talking about?  You can fly it exactly like you fly in P3D.  You can actually fly it better, since the offerings are generally more advanced now, like PMDG doing RF fixes, the iFly 737, etc...  Better weather by a mile, and yes, it looks about a million times better.  You'll never convince me P3D or FSX or whatever can compare to watching moving fronts come across your approach and the runway moving in and out of sight in the rain or snow.  I know this is the P3D forum, but everything you say just is blatantly untrue.

5 hours ago, Zatoichi said:

I feel turbulence, experience failures, find actual limits to the model.
Never had those experiences with any other flight sim unless I introduced them.

XP I have no experience with but the others are, to me walking simulators in the air. I never hear of realism, procedures etc with MSFS. Rather how good it looks.
Or the bugs.

The dash 8 for me, says it all.

I found PMDG expensive, very pretty but uninteresting to fly. 

Ever hear of a little company named Carenado…?

Made a lot of money on FSX/P3D addons. 

Never known for ANY of the things you’re talking about as though they’re intrinsic features of P3D that automagically apply to addons  

it takes a good dev to bring those features to life in an addon, no matter the sim. 

did you know the Majestic doesn’t even use P3D’s flight model…?

Nor does A2A.

Nor do a handful of the MilViz mil birds (e.g., Phantom and Talon).

I stand to be corrected, but you can’t get accurate turbulence or especially live weather in P3D without a 3rd party addon. I use ActiveSky and RealTurb for that  

In short, you’re perfectly entitled to whatever sim you like, but you’re greatly misinformed in the relative merits.

Eg, if Majestic ever do follow through on their commitment to bring the Q400 to MSFS, you can bet that ALL the things that make it a fantastic addon in P3D will be present in the MSFs version.

Same as has happened with PMDG and FSL, and BlackBird nee MilViz, etc.

 

Edited February 16Feb 16 by UrgentSiesta

17 hours ago, ATRguy said:

Also, the flight modeling in every other modern sim (XP, MSFS2024) is better than P3D.  
 

Also wants fidelity but not PMDG, which is one of the best aircraft out there. 
 

Some people lol. 

Maybe you're a pilot and have used every other sim, so you know best which sim best simulates actual flight modeling, but considering that all these things are *simulating* flight on a 2-D screen, there's only so much realism one can achieve.

The majority of flight simmers wouldn't know the difference unless, perhaps, they are pilots and/or have used professional airline simulators.

I'll also mention just in passing that the U.S. military uses P3D......

As for PMDG, IMO they are overrated and overpriced.  I owned the PMDG 737 for FSX, and while I liked it, I was never satisfied that it was worth the cost.  I use freeware planes now, with flight dynamics that I've tuned myself based on technical documents and cockpit videos in flight, and I'm perfectly happy simulating real flights using them instead of a PMDG plane.

Just my 2c.

Dave

 

10 hours ago, ATRguy said:

What are you talking about?  You can fly it exactly like you fly in P3D.  You can actually fly it better, since the offerings are generally more advanced now, like PMDG doing RF fixes, the iFly 737, etc...  Better weather by a mile, and yes, it looks about a million times better.  You'll never convince me P3D or FSX or whatever can compare to watching moving fronts come across your approach and the runway moving in and out of sight in the rain or snow.  I know this is the P3D forum, but everything you say just is blatantly untrue.

I don't doubt that MSFS has better scenery than P3D, which is a main reason while I'll likely switch over to MSFS 2024 in the future, once they finally fix all the bugs, that is.

BTW, your screenshot doesn't look much different than one I could take using P3D.

Dave

3 hours ago, dave2013 said:

but considering that all these things are *simulating* flight on a 2-D screen, there's only so much realism one can achieve.

 

Coming to grips with this reality is the only path to great contentment with this hobby and perhaps life in general. If you want “real as it gets” grap your credit card and head out to your local airport.

4 hours ago, dave2013 said:

BTW, your screenshot doesn't look much different than one I could take using P3D.

yep

5 hours ago, dave2013 said:

Maybe you're a pilot and have used every other sim, so you know best which sim best simulates actual flight modeling, but considering that all these things are *simulating* flight on a 2-D screen, there's only so much realism one can achieve.

The majority of flight simmers wouldn't know the difference unless, perhaps, they are pilots and/or have used professional airline simulators.

I'll also mention just in passing that the U.S. military uses P3D......

As for PMDG, IMO they are overrated and overpriced.  I owned the PMDG 737 for FSX, and while I liked it, I was never satisfied that it was worth the cost.  I use freeware planes now, with flight dynamics that I've tuned myself based on technical documents and cockpit videos in flight, and I'm perfectly happy simulating real flights using them instead of a PMDG plane.

Just my 2c.

Dave

 

I don’t entirely agree, but I like the sentiment!

P3D v6 is the best version of P3D ever released. And P3D has always been a great flight sim.

And yeah, if it’s good enough for the .mil, it’s probably good enough for us 😎

the only problem with P3D v6 is that there’s just a couple/few addons for it these days.

And really, “we” have no one to blame for that but ourselves. 

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

And really, “we” have no one to blame for that but ourselves

I’m interested in why you say that. No one could help the migration by developers. Especially a small few like the P guys who sold some planes with the stated goal of future updates to certain imperfections then after taking our money decided it was more profitable to jump ship and forget us.

Edited February 16Feb 16 by Patco Lch

I own a Carenado aircraft, looks nice, no flight model as far as I'm concerned.
I had my ticket and worked as a rep for the FAA for years.

Sorry, but in my opinion the people I see using MSFS tend to tout it's pretty face, not it's fidelity. Even in this thread the scenery is being presented as a strong point.

20 minutes ago, Zatoichi said:

had my ticket and worked as a rep for the FAA for years

Cool. Were you a flight inspector for GADO?

35 minutes ago, Patco Lch said:

I’m interested in why you say that. No one could help the migration by developers. Especially a small few like the P guys who sold some planes with the stated goal of future updates to certain imperfections then after taking our money decided it was more profitable to jump ship and forget us.

From what’s been shared, the 3rd party addon market utterly collapsed in short order. I.e., “we” stopped buying stuff as soon (perhaps before?) 2020 released.

I remember MilViz explaining their decision to stop not just P3D dev, but even sales of existing addons. They were selling so few that they couldn’t even cover the costs of hosting the ecomm hosting and any post-sale support. 

so, it would seem a fairly simple, if unpleasant, calculus: we, the buyers, stopped buying P3D, and so the devs had no choice but to jump ship to 2020. Because that’s where all the money went. 

Now, if I understand your other reference, well, yeah, that’s a problem because money was taken for that variant. 

I wasn’t close enough to the issue to know if the basic commitment was met, though. 

1 hour ago, Zatoichi said:

I own a Carenado aircraft, looks nice, no flight model as far as I'm concerned.
I had my ticket and worked as a rep for the FAA for years.

Sorry, but in my opinion the people I see using MSFS tend to tout it's pretty face, not it's fidelity. Even in this thread the scenery is being presented as a strong point.

Hmm… I can’t really understand your point on the first one…?

and I’m trying to keep this about P3D, but you keep making incorrect assertions. 

Are you able to substantiate your claim that P3D provides realistic simulation above and beyond the other sims?

while I can agree that there are obvious examples where some addons in P3D are head and shoulders above their respective competitors in other sims (e.g., FSL Concorde), you still haven’t provided any correct feature to say that P3D itself provides higher fidelity simulation. 

Like procedures…? Heck, those are literally a native feature in the newer sim, and even the Default addons support them. 

in terms of scenery, I’ve got the Full Stack Orbx collection for P3D. And scenery devs used to make a killing on it because P3D wasn’t great (and still isn’t)

im still waiting to hear why I should fly in P3D for any reason other than A2A warbirds, Majestic, and the 747-8i. I can’t think of a single thing other than multi-cockpit ops, can you?

Edited February 17Feb 17 by UrgentSiesta

My biggest problem with P3Dv6 is no with sim but windows 11 not allowing me to fly the Aerosoft Airbus (i know aerosoft!) So i down graded windows to 23H whatever worked for a while till my other parts of computer didn't. So down graded to P3Dv5.3 now everything seems to work.  I reloaded Msfs 2024 and bought FSL A321 neo but the darn ui is so complicated to learn its almost as useless to me as P3Dv6 scenery but no planes MSFS 2024 scenery but no planes. Now with MS end of life policy on older op systems it will be a struggle.  Actually just got locked out of MSFS 2024 by windows 11 defender. Sorry for the rant but feel much better. ( :