It's also worth noting that the tool already contains some test facility, so you can create some rules, put in your parameters and see what data output you get. Makes it quite easy to see whether the ruleset works correctly or still needs tweaking. So now I'll go and try that specific metar and see what I get...

It throws out rw 06 according to my ruleset.

A super accurate ruleset is clearly going to require much more finesse. I note here that at 18:25 departures were using 36L, which requires the longest taxi out, approx 20mins. Obviously that wouldn't be appropriate for the whole day when it is busier. Its possible to do it really accurately but like AI token use, the more accurate you want to get, the more time and number of rules you have to create and test!

My example served its purpose, it showed what we can do with the tool and sparked a discussion which illustrates how much more complex it can get!

Edited Monday at 04:22 PM1 day by kevinfirth

3 hours ago, 787flyer said:

Loving the info flow on this forthcoming app! 👍

Thankyou! Again its good to get a little feedback that the comms is appreciated - no-one likes talking to a brick wall 🤣

So I tweaked the ruleset a little in one part, and for those times/conditions, the test part of the tool now gives the runways you said were actually used.... Creating a proper profile as real as can be for most conditions will as I said before require a LOT more input. But this shows it can be done - and I chose EHAM specifically because its an absolute b@st@rd of an airport for this - so if we can get it right here we can do it anywhere with a high degree of confidence.

Just don't underestimate the complexity of researching, analysing the data and preparing the ruleset creation to arrive at what appears to be a simple result please! 😇

Edited Monday at 04:35 PM1 day by kevinfirth

IAP IAP IAP IAP

That's the key! Kevin if you wanna create a software that acts as a real thing, you need to set a source of truth and always depend on it. This is your baseline.

And one final thing, forget about setting rulesets.

You need a brain that sets the rulesets. That's what we're doing with ACE of ATCs

11 minutes ago, anilcougar said:

And one final thing, forget about setting rulesets.

You need a brain that sets the rulesets. That's what we're doing with ACE of ATCs

We're not going to be using AI for this, but if you want to for your app go fill your boots! 😁

The rulesets are laid down pretty strictly, for quite obvious and proper reasons. If you depart from those (apart from exceptional circumstances) then you won't replicate reality IMHO.

AI might have some application potentially in edge cases, where in real life a controller has to exercise some discretion outside of the rules, but at what cost to the user? I think most people want something that caters to 90-95% of real life as cheaply, efficiently and effectively as possible. That's what we're aiming for [to start with.]

That said, I'm cool with you commenting (thankyou!) and super-cool if you decide to take a different approach. Maybe you'll achieve something much better and best of luck to you 👍

Edited Monday at 05:49 PM1 day by kevinfirth

24 minutes ago, anilcougar said:

IAP IAP IAP IAP

I'm lost as to what IAP means - we are clearly a different generation 🤣

13 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

I'm lost as to what IAP means - we are clearly a different generation 🤣

OMG man (:

39 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

We're not going to be using AI for this, but if you want to for your app go fill your boots! 😁

The rulesets are laid down pretty strictly, for quite obvious and proper reasons. If you depart from those (apart from exceptional circumstances) then you won't replicate reality IMHO.

AI might have some application potentially in edge cases, where in real life a controller has to exercise some discretion outside of the rules, but at what cost to the user? I think most people want something that caters to 90-95% of real life as cheaply, efficiently and effectively as possible. That's what we're aiming for [to start with.]

That said, I'm cool with you commenting (thankyou!) and super-cool if you decide to take a different approach. Maybe you'll achieve something much better and best of luck to you 👍

No worries Kevin, I think we may be using the word "brain" differently.

I did not mean an AI should invent rules or ignore published procedures. Quite the opposite. The rules, procedures and aircraft state still need to be the source of truth.

What I meant is that the system needs a decision layer that can choose and apply the correct ruleset for the current situation, instead of every part of the software making its own assumptions.

So yes, I fully agree with you that realism depends on respecting the rules. My point was more about state ownership and deciding which rule applies when the situation changes.

And again, best of luck with the project. I know how hard this kind of software is to build.

5 minutes ago, anilcougar said:

OMG man (:

IAP most commonly stands for In-App Purchase, Identity-Aware Proxy, or Internet Access Provider.

Or Instrument Approach Procedure (IAP)?

Edited Monday at 06:32 PM1 day by kevinfirth

2 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

IAP most commonly stands for In-App Purchase, Identity-Aware Proxy, or Internet Access Provider.

Or did you mean something else?

In this context I meant Instrument Approach Procedure, as in published approach procedures. No worries, I should have written it out instead of using the acronym.

52 minutes ago, anilcougar said:

In this context I meant Instrument Approach Procedure, as in published approach procedures. No worries, I should have written it out instead of using the acronym.

I got there in the end (see edited post above), but thought it was some kind of slang or regional thing as you repeated it 4 times 🤣

deleted - duplicate post

Edited yesterday at 05:38 AM1 day by kevinfirth

12 hours ago, anilcougar said:

IAP IAP IAP IAP

That's the key! Kevin if you wanna create a software that acts as a real thing, you need to set a source of truth and always depend on it. This is your baseline.

So here's my sources for EHAM 😉

Peak/off-peak/night runway combination counts (1+1, 2+1, 1+2)	EHAM eAIP AD 2.1/AD 2.22 (LVNL) — Netherlands eAIP, current AIRAC cycle, https://eaip.lvnl.nl
Night curfew closures (18R/36L, 18L/36R, 04/22, 09/27, 18C/36C timings)	EHAM eAIP AD 2.1 (LVNL) — Netherlands eAIP, https://eaip.lvnl.nl
Gust threshold (gusts <10kt ignored) and ATC discretion on extreme wind	EHAM eAIP AD 2.22 §4.3 (LVNL) — Netherlands eAIP, https://eaip.lvnl.nl
Preferred combination: 36L departures / 24 landings under northerly wind; 36C added at outbound peak; 18L added at inbound peak. Pairing fully reverses under southerly wind (24 departures / 18R landings, with 36R and 18C as the swapped helper runways).	Schiphol official site, 'Noise and runway combinations', https://www.schiphol.nl/en/schiphol-as-a-neighbour/noise-and-runway-combinations
06/24 (Kaagbaan) preferred for arrivals, 18R/36L (Polderbaan) preferred for departures — noise rationale	Schiphol official site, 'Noise and runway combinations' (as above)
Runway lengths and identifiers	Public EHAM AIP/chart data, cross-referenced with Jeppesen EHAM airport briefing pages
04/22 restricted to single-engine propeller <5700kg MTOM for training	EHAM eAIP AD 2.1 (LVNL)
Numeric crosswind/tailwind thresholds per named combination (AIP §4.3.3)	NOT VERIFIED from public sources at time of writing. [Estimated]

Very interested and great news, long time coming though if I'm honest.

I was an avid user of VOX ATC previously and currently use a payware ATC for MSFS BUT the price is increasing (quite a lot actually) as they are introducing features I don't use...seems mainly geared towards airliners now..

1 hour ago, davenicoll said:

Very interested and great news, long time coming though if I'm honest.

I was an avid user of VOX ATC previously and currently use a payware ATC for MSFS BUT the price is increasing (quite a lot actually) as they are introducing features I don't use...seems mainly geared towards airliners now..

Lots of things have delayed and interrupted getting to where we are now. Enough said.

I'm sure you will be quietly content with the price-point of Vox. 🙃

...and I haven't covered any of the VFR functionality yet. 🤫