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Guest fabrytnix

Flight1 & piracy

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Everybody talks about piracy and what can be done about it.Due to this ongoing piracy discussion and after my last experience with Flight1 I wanted to share this

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Bernt,I guess that as a developer I must ask this: Is it okay if a protection scheme sometimes does harm a customer? If yes, may it be one in ten? In a hundred? In a thousand?I'm not trying to be a smart alec here but if piracy is simply a cost of doing business, maybe occasional wrapper problems are a price of being a customer.I have two Flight1 products that I've purchased twice because I wanted to get around certain hassles without involving customer service. I'm not saying that everybody should be willing to do this, only that I was.

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For me this is a basic customer care problem.After buying quite a few products from Flight1 I simply thought that it would cost Flight1 nothing to e.g. issue a new key.It's just 15USD! Why should I pay for something I bought already, only due to a strange 'security' problem?With that attitude Flight1 is showing, I do get the impression that they are assuming that I'm trying to 'cheat' to get a free upgrade, basically another form of piracy.And that's definitely not a customer oriented attitude.It's the same in my job. We HAVE to be friendly and customer oriented, otherwise people will start talking about the unfriendly airline and sooner or later you will see a signifcant decline in passenger figures.If that happens at Flight1 I'm sure that 'piracy' is the official culprit and nothing else.RegardsBernt Capt 767

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I agree, Bernt. While I'm happy to overpay FLight1, I would not want to ask that of my own customers. If I do elect to release the product it will be with a lightweight license key and not anything tied to a fingerprint of the customer's machine.

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The invalid license is no problem.When you reinstall from the original downloaded package you just need the keyfile. Connecting to the internet, the Flight1 wrapper automatically generates a new license.But if the license file is invalid, there must have been a hardware change as well. If not.... well, see my initial post ;) RegardsBernt Capt 767

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Sorry to read about the problems you are having. You might not know I provide volunteer support on Flight1's forum but didn't find any posts by you regarding a problem. The Flight1 wrapper system is really quite user friendly and automated for renewing and/or replacing keys and even working with you if you change your email address and can even provide you with a list of your purchases including your four digit code used (usually the last four digits of your card #). I know you state you emailed support regarding being able to prove you purchased but understand that as a company of its size Flight1 does get numerous email requests like this from people that don't actually have a reciept. Did you forward any of the email confirmations from your original purchase or include a scan of the reciept when you emailed support? I have to say your experience is really out of the ordinary for a legit purchaser (which I believe you are) so I hope you can get matters sorted out.

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If you have the key file, it's fully automatic, don't worry.Strange about the other products.Glad that there's CS and Carenado. BTW, the 1.1 Herk works beautifully.RegardsBernt Capt 767

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Seems that it was a good idea to start plane design for x-plane again ;) RegardsBernt Capt 767

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>Seems that it was a good idea to start plane design for>x-plane again ;)> Oh good!Put some more "feel" into small X-Planes. I still get the perceptionof a somewhat "vacuum" with puppet strings; and 10 minutes of flying around just get's on my nerves. Other than that, there are things I like about X-Plane.L.Adamson -- getting off subject

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>Put some more "feel" into small X-Planes...In progress, you will be surprised ;)First plane with the 'heavier' more dampened feel will be the xplanefreeware 757 for v9 (not too far away)RegardsBernt Capt 767

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FS2Crew has been using the Flight1 Wrapper system for over three years, so I'm very familiar with it.I've found it to be a generally very reliable and easy system for my users.If users need new Keys, lost their password, etc., it only takes a couple seconds to get it all back, via here:http://www.flight1.com/view.asp?page=wrapperserviceNow some people (usually less than 1 percent from my experience) have odd issues with the Flight1 System for whatever reason; in that case you usually buy the same software from Simmarket or the FS Pilot shop or any other online store.Cheers,Bryan

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C'mon Bernt. This has nothing to do with Piracy. The title of your thread is entirely misleading.Also, based on how I personally have tried to do things to smooth out any issues you had in the past, I am disappointed you had to take an argument, issue, gripe, whatever, to a public location.But since we are here, you know that if you were having an issue that could not get resolved with Jeff, you could have asked Jeff to forward the ticket to me. In looking at the thread, it seems as though Jeff thought that since he could not find an alternate order with the "other" email address, and that you did finally make the FSX purchase on a Friday, that all was OK. But you interpreted that as a "reaction" from Jeff when it really was not. And Jeff does forward difficult tickets if he could not figure something out.Also, your more "personal" accusations in the thread (see near the end) will surely make for a short reaction in a followup from anyone. Yes, I know you are the customer, but still, saying what you did with personal attack overtones was not right.OK... even if Jeff did make a mistake trying to figure out what was going on, it has little to do with piracy. The thread is difficult to follow in a way, and we have zero interest in trying to spend many replies in trying to save 15 dollars. It was more about trying to figure out what was happening.

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Steve,Let me clarify something I said in my most recent post above ...I personally would not want a wrapper on my product because, even though Flight1 is an honorable operation and all wrapper issues are solvable one way or another, my preference would be that my customers not have issues in the first place.However, if I did want a wrapper for my product, it would be Flight1, especially because I think I heard that the wrapper you wrote can be rented as part of a full service ecommerce package via another retailer. (Nothing against Flight1, it

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Mike,If you view http://www.flight1.com/view.asp?page=wrapperservice almost everything is entirely self-service, 24-hours a day. Only if you have an inaccessible email address, or do not have access to your original email address, would you maybe need intervention.That said, if you ever need intervention, and can't wait, and re-purchase, we always will refund duplicates. Just submit a customer request ticket.I am not sure I understood the other second point. But the good thing about our wrapper is that it does not require any middle-man. Developers both big and small can use it directly through us. All transactions, no matter where you download it from, if it uses our wrapper, all goes through our system. That means that Flight1 appears on your bill, and everything is servicable via the service link above.

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I think it may have been email address changes both times. At any rate I will remember what you have said for future purchases, which there surely will be, and very soon.I am very pleased with Flight1, and with all the products that I have purchased through Flight1.

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>This has nothing to do with PiracyWell, that's what Zane wrote:>...understand that as a company of its size Flight1 does get numerous email requests like this from people that don't actually have a recieptThis whole issue lasted more than a week. Uninstalled windows, fsx, reinstalled fs9, fsx etc... Tried to help Flight1 with various mails in troubleshooting what the problem with the wrapper might be.Apparently there IS a problem, otherwise it wouldn't have been possible to buy and run the FSX upgrade in the first place.The only e-mails I got were:1 check the forums2 you must buy the FSX upgrade 3 there's no problem with the wrapper From a customers point of view this looks very much like an accusation of, let's call it 'cheating'.>Also, based on how I personally have tried to do things to smooth out any issues you had in the past....The only single previous 'issue' I had was the access to the Level-D forum which has no much to do with Flight1.But that's exactly the point. Now I had my first 'real' issue with the wrapper system and suddenly no one really tried to solve this problem. >And Jeff does forward difficult tickets if he could not figure something out.It couldn't get much more difficult than this issue I assume.>Yes, I know you are the customer, but still, saying what you did with personal attack overtones was not right.I just re-read my initial post but honestely, I can't see the personal attack. Maybe it's again a 'mothertongue' problem. If it really was, sorry. >...we have zero interest in trying to spend many replies in trying to save 15 dollars.Same here. Unfortunately the wrapper doesn't let me buy it for 15USD! ;)The main problem is that we are talking about a hobby.It's not my intention to waste hours and even days of my leisure time in trying to get a product to work which I bought and due to a problem with the wrapper refuses to work upon reinstallation.Of course I'm trying now to stay with companies where I know, problems like these simply don't exist. E.g. CarenadoMaking software protection too complicated might also be a contributing factor why some people tend to get hold of pirated software. RegardsBernt Capt 767

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>>This has nothing to do with Piracy>>Well, that's what Zane wrote:>>...understand that as a company of its size Flight1 does get>numerous email requests like this from people that don't>actually have a reciept>And the issue you are having doesn't, as Steve stated. Your issue as it turns out was a different email address than the company's records indicated and most likely an old one that you no longer used nor could be reached at. The burden in that case does fall on you to prove you are who you say you are... the original purchaser. I was merely asking if you had shown your reciept or just stated that you had one, and yes, there are people that claim to have a reciept and don't in fact actually have one. I do always keep and recommend to others to burn a CD with all your Flight1 keys so that you do have them and aren't relying on the hard drive as your only saved copy. Sorry this happened to you but step into the other guys shoes and try to see the other side to the story.

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I have to admit that, I have spent many days 'banging my head' on the wall trying to re-install my many Flight One products that I have bought but, they have always solved it in the end.Jeff and I have crossed swords on this and I suppose it IS because of piracy that we, genuine customers suffer occasionally because of it.I will say though, if you have all the ingredients that are asked for (licence and last four digits etc.) Flight One have really now streamlined and improved their service as previously stated here by their staff, it is probably the best there is, now.

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>Your issue as it turns out was a different email address than the company's records indicated and most likely an old one that you no longer used nor could be reached at.That's incorrect. All my keys etc... have been reset by Steve long time ago.I requested a new key, a lot of other different ways to solve the problem.... Nothing workedAs I said, dealing with Flight1, not only in case of problems, has always been a pleasure!!!That's why I'm a bit surprised now...RegardsBernt Capt 767

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The problem with the lost order is that there was no information that could recover the order (through regular means) because you did not have data that matched anything that could be looked up manually.But I did some advanced tracing, following the original order number and coupon trail, and I came up with the correct "lost" order number. The alternate email address you provided was not correct, but was close.Anyway, again this was not about piracy, but the difficult task of trying to match a lost order to the name of a customer, and the fact that you used totally different information on the new purchase (with nothing close to your original purchases), and it made this task difficult.So we are all at square one now, and Jeff already refunded the second purchase.See the ticket thread for the correct order information.

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