RatRace

Oh, but I am very much aware that MS Flight was not a revolutionary new sim ! But still, it was IMHO a significant improvement over the existing FSX code, certainly in terms of scenery and even flight models. Which makes it all the more incomprehensible that DTG would revert to the original FSX code. Oh well, all water under the bridge now.

Like a broken record I keep repeating this whenever and wherever I can: IMHO DTG dug their onw grave when they decided to use the MS FSX platform instead of the MS Flight one. It is certainly nice to have Carenado-like aircraft out-of-the-box, and the raindrops keep reminding me of my all time favourite sim, Flight Unlimited, but Orbx or no Orbx, I hate the FSW scenery just as much as I hate the FSX one (basically, because the scenery engines are the same of course). Nothing more than my two cents.

From what I understand, not legally.

So very true, but WotanUK still makes an interesting point. Would the - obvious to everyone - fact that P3D is de facto being used by some for entertainment purposes allow DTG to sue LM? IMHO DTG would be insane to do so, but who knows .... That said, all this has nothing to do with the OP's original question. DTG's Flight Sim World is not a continuation of MS Flight. and that is all that needs to be said. Bonus: links to the original press releases: https://news.microsoft.com/2009/11/30/lockheed-martin-microsoft-agreement-to-bring-better-training-to-warfighters/#VyIIEcRaYK2L3XI0.97 http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2009/november/LockheedMartin-MicrosoftA.html

Maybe, but I am not entirely convinced. End of 2008 ESP was a marketing strategy by Microsoft, more in particular its Institute for Advanced Technology in Government, to - in their own words - "bring “plug and play” capabilities to commercial off-the-shelf PC-based computer hardware platforms and devices, putting the entire spectrum of training simulations within reach by making them much more affordable and faster to develop or modify" So yes, from the start MS ESP was clearly aimed at the public sector, and LM obviously never intended to sell a "game".

LM can sue their users for misuse of the license (something that is highly unlikely IMO, but theoretically possible), but DTG ? All that LM and MS ever did was enter into an intellectual property (IP) licensing agreement that allowed LM to further develop the Microsoft ESP. The decision "not for entertainment purposes" was LM's decision and their decision alone. Neither MS nor DTG have anything to do with this.

As I recall the reason DTG gave for choosing the FSX engine was that they had already invested a lot of time and effort in upgrading FSX for the Steam platform. With MS Flight they would have to start all over again. In any case, the new DTG sim will probably be a 64-bit FSX with Orbx landclass and Accu-Feel enhancement. It will definitely not be a MS Flight 2 !

I can assure you it never occurs in MS Flight, simply because there is no ATC !

Methinks you are in the wrong forum.

Same here. I was a huge FU3 fan. It made MS FS look like a silly cartoon. MS Flight gave me that same feeling of flying FU3 did when I first tried it. My main sim these days is XP10, but I still fire up MS Flight every now and then. As for DTG Flight School - they made the wrong choice with FSX IMHO, but that's their mistake. BTW, the three second memory of a goldfish is probably a myth http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/goldfish-memory-minimyth/

Apparently SOH blew their hard disk or something, so I couldn't read the thread until now. I wouldn't say "appears", as falcon409 clearly states that "...he started working this up over a year ago and I believe that the things you found were things he was unable to correct. The reasons for that are his to relate, but as it is the aircraft from MSFlight there were some limitations in what he was able to accomplish." Without permission this certainly looks like a no-no to me.

It's been a while since I last visited this place. I'm surprised there is so little activity. Has everyone given up? Or are we waiting for Dovetail's flight sim ? http://www.dovetailgames.com/news/2015/aug/4/dovetail-games-looks-to-the-future-collaborating-with-microsoft

A landmark figure of the Flight Sim Community is no longer with us. My condolences to his family.

My deepest respect for everything you've done for the flightsimming community. My thoughts are with you and your family.

Thanks for the swift reply, Stonelance. That makes a lot of sense, and I'll give it a try then. You're probably right that Dovetail's world won't be Flight quality. But I would still pay good money for a few more Flight qualtiy high detail areas. In the meanwhile, your solution is heaven-sent. Thanks again for all the excellent work.

I've been away for a while - and much to my surprise - now learn that one can import FSX scenery. Not to offend anyone, and I do have a lot of respect for Stonelance's hard work - but for the life of me, I can't see the point. One of the things that drew me to MS Flight was its superior scenery. Now, if I wanted to look at FSX scenery, I'd simply re-install FSX. Or am I missing something ? I do hope Dovetail will revive MS Flight, along the way attracting talented developers providing us with "genuine MS Flight quality" sceneries. Just my 2 cents.

Well, in spite of using MS technology, it obviously wouldn't be a Microsoft flight sim anymore, so I guess AVSIM could create the "Dovetail whatever" Forums. Edit Ah, the question has already been answered.

I had to look up SOL, and understand now why it isn't written out in full My feeling is DTG will try so hard to "rebrand" MS Flight, they might even deny their new program has anything to do with MS Flight at all! So yes, we will be SOL. My two cents.

the ESP IP (intellectual property) . See http://forum.avsim.net/topic/446086-dovetail-games-buys-licensing-deal-with-microsoft/page-12#entry3027860 We can only hope that Dovetail will rebrand MS Flight, make a few fixes, perhaps provide some extra DLC, and allow 3d party development.

freequest, I don't have a glass ball and honestly have no idea how FSX will be received at STEAM. I was merely voicing an opinion, not a fact. What happens next is 'wait and see'. If the FSX STEAM edition attracts new simmers, so much the better for the FSX community, and the flight sim community in general. This is the MS Flight forum. I'm more worried about what will happen to the MS Flight franchise, but again, that is 'wait and see'.

Yes, I do not doubt for one moment that FSX has an awesome modding community. The point is, Dovetail will release a "bare" FSX (hopefully bug-free, and perhaps with multi-playing re-enabled), but obviously without all the add-ons. Now, be honest, would you like to play the 2006 version of FSX, without any add-ons? And how much have you paid for all your add-ons over the years? And will those add-ons be available as DLC on STEAM? Just asking. That said, whatever sim makes you happy, makes me happy too. We can all hope that the STEAM releases will attract a whole bunch of new simmers, whether that be new FSX, XP10 or (in the future) revived Flight simmers.

Maybe this is where the confusion is coming from MS press release ORLANDO, Fla. — Nov. 30, 2009 — Lockheed Martin (NYSE: LMT) and Microsoft Corp. entered into an intellectual property (IP) licensing agreement that allows Lockheed Martin to further develop the Microsoft ESP PC-based visual simulation software platform to better train warfighters for battle. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2009/nov09/11-30warfightertrainingpr.aspx

Cannot agree entirely with that. The "flight dynamics engine" of MS Flight is an improved version of the FSX engine, whereas P3D is still using the old FDE. But the MS Flight code certainly isn't 64 bit, and I doubt Dovetail has any plans (or the capability for that matter) to convert it to 64 bit.

Yes, to the FSX Gold version. I think that what they're saying is: "don' expect FS11 or FS12 for that matter", at least not from Dovetail. To make it even clearer: Microsoft "retained all development rights to “Flight Simulator,” according to Xbox spokesman David Dennis. http://blogs.seattletimes.com/brierdudley/2014/07/09/microsofts-flight-simulator-returns-sort-of/ DTG is allowed to (re)distribute FSX Gold, and that's it. As far as I know, that does not apply to MS Flight.

Frankly, I think the STEAM FSX version is going to be torn to pieces by the STEAM crowd (throwing completely outdated graphics at those who are used to the latest sugar candy?). MS Flight wasn't brought down by the "serious" flight sim community. FAIK MS was still making money, they just weren't interested anymore.