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razorseal

do i have any options other then eaglesoft for biz jets?

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I honestly hate their biz jets... the interiors are the lowest quality and their autopilots are the most non sense making things... (#### FLC on the Cit X was like auto throttle or something)I have the wilco legacy 600, and it is GREAT, but I'm looking for something like CJ1 and such... the eaglesoft CJ1 (#### anyone for that matter) utterly suck in my opinion...I know I'm being WAY too harsh on their products but I just feel real bad I spend over 60 bux on some of their planes and I got the worst planes ever I had purcahsed so i'm very sad...so any other options for me?

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>>>>>>so any other options for me?>>Sure.>>http://www.arianedesign.com/>>No one ever complained about their interiors. >>ricardoRicardo, you are an evil man. :-saeBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

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I don't think you are being too harsh. The exterior models of all of Eaglesofts aircraft are pretty good but the panels and vc interiors are terrible and always have been. The performance isn't too good either, especially with the GA models. I also wish there was more choice for biz jets. At least Eagleosft use the Flight1 sytem and you can get a refund. The only addon of theirs I have remaining on my hard drive is the Premier/Hawker AI package which I don't think they offer any more.I honestly don't know why other developers haven't gone into this market as Dreamfleet, RealAir etc would blow the competition away or at least make them a little less complacent.

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I like the Eaglesoft Bizjets--without Eaglesoft the genre might still have gone ignored even today, just like the experimental genre is largely ignored. The Beechjet is a thing of beauty. I'd say the liberal use of #### in your post doesn't show a strong grasp of how to qualify your comments. I have one rule--if I spend a small fortune on something and I don't like it, I don't buy another product from the same vendor. You sound like you're a jet jockey and have sat in the cockpits of the real thing. If you know how such systems should work and Eaglesoft hasn't delivered to your expectations, why buy another? It sounds like you've bought more than one. Maybe you should post a couple of screenshots to show us which ones you have and where ES could improve? Still, there's always other options. FSD's Avanti has a great interior. Even though it's not a Bizjet, if you're looking for a CJ1 the Avanti is a blast and can just about keep up in cruise. Another nice Bizjet is the Falcon 50--a freeware offering.-John

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Why rant? Just get a refund. Really quite simple isn't it? :-)PS. For every rant we've heard we can show you thousands upon thousands of satisfied users and that is no exageration.:-)

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Thousands upon thousands? How many have you sold really? How many Columbia's for example? I'd love to know (and I mean sold, not given away to scrteenshot artists for publicity purposes).

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"Thousands upon thousands? How many have you sold really? How many Columbia's for example? I'd love to know (and I mean sold, not given away to scrteenshot artists for publicity purposes)."I don't like to see vendors respond to threads like this. I feel the discussion should be left to the public other than a vendor responding to a support questions. Catch phrases like "Thousands upon thousands" tend to sound like advertisements and all vendors should respect the no advert rules here in the forums. I'd say this reply is an expected reaction and part of being in business is knowing when not to open the door.That said, while I think people have a right to not like a product, I don't think you're taking the moral high ground by defending a thread where the author had to use either implied or deleted expletives to express his opinion. If payware ignites that level of passion, and someone still is bent on buying from the same vendor as the orignal post implies, then one needs to get out of the hobby and get to Tibet for some serious meditation and reflection. Life is too short, don't ya think?-John

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Life is indeed too short John, but I was expecting the developer to jump on the original comment and wanted to offer my support before that happened. I have commented myself here and elsewhere about the quality of the eaglesoft vc and the reaction is always the same - the developer pops up from nowhere and implies that there must be something wrong with my perception as 'thousands' are deliriously happy with the product. One should be allowed to pass honest comment on an addon without the developer immediately jumping up and down crying foul.As for once bitten twice shy, I am always willing to give the developer the benefit of the doubt and if they release a shoddy product one year and work for two years on the next one, I tend to think it possible that any errors or weaknesses have been learnt from and improved on. You can trace the devopment of some developers from ok products to outstanding products based on customer feedback and a willingness to improve but other developers I think are willing to just take the money.

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Well, I'm one of the 'thousand' (very) happy customers. I have the Citation X and really like it, as I do all the other GA aircraft in the ES fleet. All top notch as far as I'm concerned, and realistically modeled to boot (enough for me anyway). Heck, many real world pilots who have actually 'flown' these aircraft, and given them their highest praises, can't be ignored.I also fly Real Air and Carenado models, and they too, IMO, are top notch. ES gets my nod for bringing the most modern up-to-date cockpits into the GA realm, and nobody gas done it better IMO.

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I do not think eaglesoft VCs are bad. I recently reinstalled my CitationX and I was surprised to rediscover how good its VC is compared to my feelthere legacy I've been flying regularly lately. However, I felt the urge to "rip" out the entire avionics suite in the CX and replace it with something far better. It's so simply compared to what I have in the legacy.BUT, Eaglesoft is doing just that. I'm eagerly awaiting their XLS and CitationX 2.0. I anticipate both to be good, very good.Good business jets are rare in the market as it has always been. But the definition of "business jets" is not always that clear. Do you mean jets used for charter operations, fractional ownership, corporate flight dept...etc? Well there is the BBJ. Some european operators fly the old BAC 1-11, for which we have an absolutely excellent free addon, there is even the famous russian 767 for which you can simply download a LDS767 repaint. For me what I want most from a FS bjet is a good Honeywell or Rockwell Collins avionics suite. I don't think any developer has the plan to challenge the Primus Epics suite yet but come on guys, at least give us a great Primus 1000 or 2000 with an excellent model and VC. Or Collins 21 of course. To eaglesoft, I see not much need to react to a post like this. I'm sure the poster is aware of his option to get a refund, instead he chose to post a negative comment. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. The only way to counter negativity is to introduce something positive. Keep us more updated on your projects and we'll show more faith and support. It's that simple.Jason

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Just as a reference for folks who are not familiar; here are two recent shots I took inside the Citation X:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/165937.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/165938.jpgLooks mighty good to me ;)Also, please note that the AP functions referenced were actually added to the FS model for the ease of use by simmers, it does not exist in the real world, and that has been mentioned in the manual.And finally, the 530's you see on the console are RXP units which I installed.

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>>And finally, the 530's you see on the console are RXP units>which I installed.>>That might JUST be what I need for now! Does the MFD pick on way points you input in the 530?Thanks.

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Hmm, didn't know developers were excluded from posting their own views in public forums so we provided a true statement regarding the number of satisfied Citation X customers. The statement regarding a refund is also true.We fail to see the truth in a statement like "wasted 60 bucks" when the customer has a perfect right to a refund if disatisfied and should have availed himself of the same. The implication that Eaglesoft has somehow done him a diservice is the crux of this matter. That implication could not be further from the truth.Another poster wrote...."I don't think any developer has the plan to challenge the Primus Epics suite yet but come on guys, at least give us a great Primus 1000 or 2000 with an excellent model and VC"The following statement is informational not promotional. Citation X uses Primus 2000 now and the CX2.0 carries improved Primus 2000.Our Citation XLS carries Primus Epic and is under development.Thanks to those who understand our reasons for posting.:-)Hope this helps.

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