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razorseal

do i have any options other then eaglesoft for biz jets?

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I honestly hate their biz jets... the interiors are the lowest quality and their autopilots are the most non sense making things... (#### FLC on the Cit X was like auto throttle or something)I have the wilco legacy 600, and it is GREAT, but I'm looking for something like CJ1 and such... the eaglesoft CJ1 (#### anyone for that matter) utterly suck in my opinion...I know I'm being WAY too harsh on their products but I just feel real bad I spend over 60 bux on some of their planes and I got the worst planes ever I had purcahsed so i'm very sad...so any other options for me?

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>>>>>>so any other options for me?>>Sure.>>http://www.arianedesign.com/>>No one ever complained about their interiors. >>ricardoRicardo, you are an evil man. :-saeBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

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I don't think you are being too harsh. The exterior models of all of Eaglesofts aircraft are pretty good but the panels and vc interiors are terrible and always have been. The performance isn't too good either, especially with the GA models. I also wish there was more choice for biz jets. At least Eagleosft use the Flight1 sytem and you can get a refund. The only addon of theirs I have remaining on my hard drive is the Premier/Hawker AI package which I don't think they offer any more.I honestly don't know why other developers haven't gone into this market as Dreamfleet, RealAir etc would blow the competition away or at least make them a little less complacent.

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I like the Eaglesoft Bizjets--without Eaglesoft the genre might still have gone ignored even today, just like the experimental genre is largely ignored. The Beechjet is a thing of beauty. I'd say the liberal use of #### in your post doesn't show a strong grasp of how to qualify your comments. I have one rule--if I spend a small fortune on something and I don't like it, I don't buy another product from the same vendor. You sound like you're a jet jockey and have sat in the cockpits of the real thing. If you know how such systems should work and Eaglesoft hasn't delivered to your expectations, why buy another? It sounds like you've bought more than one. Maybe you should post a couple of screenshots to show us which ones you have and where ES could improve? Still, there's always other options. FSD's Avanti has a great interior. Even though it's not a Bizjet, if you're looking for a CJ1 the Avanti is a blast and can just about keep up in cruise. Another nice Bizjet is the Falcon 50--a freeware offering.-John

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Why rant? Just get a refund. Really quite simple isn't it? :-)PS. For every rant we've heard we can show you thousands upon thousands of satisfied users and that is no exageration.:-)

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Thousands upon thousands? How many have you sold really? How many Columbia's for example? I'd love to know (and I mean sold, not given away to scrteenshot artists for publicity purposes).

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"Thousands upon thousands? How many have you sold really? How many Columbia's for example? I'd love to know (and I mean sold, not given away to scrteenshot artists for publicity purposes)."I don't like to see vendors respond to threads like this. I feel the discussion should be left to the public other than a vendor responding to a support questions. Catch phrases like "Thousands upon thousands" tend to sound like advertisements and all vendors should respect the no advert rules here in the forums. I'd say this reply is an expected reaction and part of being in business is knowing when not to open the door.That said, while I think people have a right to not like a product, I don't think you're taking the moral high ground by defending a thread where the author had to use either implied or deleted expletives to express his opinion. If payware ignites that level of passion, and someone still is bent on buying from the same vendor as the orignal post implies, then one needs to get out of the hobby and get to Tibet for some serious meditation and reflection. Life is too short, don't ya think?-John

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Life is indeed too short John, but I was expecting the developer to jump on the original comment and wanted to offer my support before that happened. I have commented myself here and elsewhere about the quality of the eaglesoft vc and the reaction is always the same - the developer pops up from nowhere and implies that there must be something wrong with my perception as 'thousands' are deliriously happy with the product. One should be allowed to pass honest comment on an addon without the developer immediately jumping up and down crying foul.As for once bitten twice shy, I am always willing to give the developer the benefit of the doubt and if they release a shoddy product one year and work for two years on the next one, I tend to think it possible that any errors or weaknesses have been learnt from and improved on. You can trace the devopment of some developers from ok products to outstanding products based on customer feedback and a willingness to improve but other developers I think are willing to just take the money.

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Well, I'm one of the 'thousand' (very) happy customers. I have the Citation X and really like it, as I do all the other GA aircraft in the ES fleet. All top notch as far as I'm concerned, and realistically modeled to boot (enough for me anyway). Heck, many real world pilots who have actually 'flown' these aircraft, and given them their highest praises, can't be ignored.I also fly Real Air and Carenado models, and they too, IMO, are top notch. ES gets my nod for bringing the most modern up-to-date cockpits into the GA realm, and nobody gas done it better IMO.

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I do not think eaglesoft VCs are bad. I recently reinstalled my CitationX and I was surprised to rediscover how good its VC is compared to my feelthere legacy I've been flying regularly lately. However, I felt the urge to "rip" out the entire avionics suite in the CX and replace it with something far better. It's so simply compared to what I have in the legacy.BUT, Eaglesoft is doing just that. I'm eagerly awaiting their XLS and CitationX 2.0. I anticipate both to be good, very good.Good business jets are rare in the market as it has always been. But the definition of "business jets" is not always that clear. Do you mean jets used for charter operations, fractional ownership, corporate flight dept...etc? Well there is the BBJ. Some european operators fly the old BAC 1-11, for which we have an absolutely excellent free addon, there is even the famous russian 767 for which you can simply download a LDS767 repaint. For me what I want most from a FS bjet is a good Honeywell or Rockwell Collins avionics suite. I don't think any developer has the plan to challenge the Primus Epics suite yet but come on guys, at least give us a great Primus 1000 or 2000 with an excellent model and VC. Or Collins 21 of course. To eaglesoft, I see not much need to react to a post like this. I'm sure the poster is aware of his option to get a refund, instead he chose to post a negative comment. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. The only way to counter negativity is to introduce something positive. Keep us more updated on your projects and we'll show more faith and support. It's that simple.Jason

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Just as a reference for folks who are not familiar; here are two recent shots I took inside the Citation X:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/165937.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/165938.jpgLooks mighty good to me ;)Also, please note that the AP functions referenced were actually added to the FS model for the ease of use by simmers, it does not exist in the real world, and that has been mentioned in the manual.And finally, the 530's you see on the console are RXP units which I installed.

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>>And finally, the 530's you see on the console are RXP units>which I installed.>>That might JUST be what I need for now! Does the MFD pick on way points you input in the 530?Thanks.

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Hmm, didn't know developers were excluded from posting their own views in public forums so we provided a true statement regarding the number of satisfied Citation X customers. The statement regarding a refund is also true.We fail to see the truth in a statement like "wasted 60 bucks" when the customer has a perfect right to a refund if disatisfied and should have availed himself of the same. The implication that Eaglesoft has somehow done him a diservice is the crux of this matter. That implication could not be further from the truth.Another poster wrote...."I don't think any developer has the plan to challenge the Primus Epics suite yet but come on guys, at least give us a great Primus 1000 or 2000 with an excellent model and VC"The following statement is informational not promotional. Citation X uses Primus 2000 now and the CX2.0 carries improved Primus 2000.Our Citation XLS carries Primus Epic and is under development.Thanks to those who understand our reasons for posting.:-)Hope this helps.

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>I honestly hate their biz jets... the interiors are the>lowest quality and their autopilots are the most non sense>making things... (#### FLC on the Cit X was like auto throttle>or something)>>I have the wilco legacy 600, and it is GREAT, but I'm looking>for something like CJ1 and such... the eaglesoft CJ1 (####>anyone for that matter) utterly suck in my opinion...>>I know I'm being WAY too harsh on their products but I just>feel real bad I spend over 60 bux on some of their planes and>I got the worst planes ever I had purcahsed so i'm very>sad...>>so any other options for me?agreed. no VC reflections, blurry textures (even at 2x zoom i still can't read the autopilot buttons or anything else for that matter; nope it's not my rig nor settings). AP operation does leave something to be desired. Night lightning is a joke. just a floodlight for the whole cockpit. the rest i like. but still, VCs are of lower quality than they should be in 2006. perhaps a model update is in order. hard on the FPS too for some reason. the rest (exterior, cabin, dynamics, paint) are of proper quality.

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Well I quite like Eaglesoft - and I see no problem with them coming on and defending themselves. Too many times people complain that the developers dont listen and dont respond on the forums then when one does they get abused - no wonder they stay away.Keep up the good work Eaglesoft.Scott P.s. In no way affiliated with any flightsim software company

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>Well I quite like Eaglesoft - and I see no problem with them>coming on and defending themselves. Too many times people>complain that the developers dont listen and dont respond on>the forums then when one does they get abused - no wonder they>stay away.>>Keep up the good work Eaglesoft.>>Scott >P.s. In no way affiliated with any flightsim software companyThanks Scott,In retrospect, a better choice of words could have been "several thousand satisfied users for every rant we see."Informational not promotional: CX1.0 was released in 2003 and is still a great product for it's age. CX2.0 is a total rebuild in 3D Studio Max and GDI+ Primus 2000 w/FMS and proper A/P w/Vnav and Fadec along with improved graphics in every area. Slated for 2007 release.Our post simply sheds light on the fact that from time to time, some user picks out a developer/product and posts either untruths or half truths in order to satisfy an agenda. Many times the agenda is nothing more than to denigrate the developer or its product. In this case, it is clear that the OP could have easily had a refund and would have had no reason to be disatisfied:-)

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QUOTE "CX2.0 is a total rebuild in 3D Studio Max and GDI+ Primus 2000 w/FMS and proper A/P w/Vnav and Fadec along with improved graphics in every area. Slated for 2007 release."Just to be sure - the 2.0 is still FSX only though, correct? (Since this is an FS9 forum).Joe LorencEDIT - Stand corrected - Had not visited the thread in your forums in quite awhile and now see a post towatrds the end saying "CX2.0 will be available as either an FS9 or FSX Version and users will have a purchase decison to make." - GOOD NEWS.

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Correct Joe. Thanks for visiting and taking the time to know what our focus for the future is:-)

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I'm always surprised by posts like this, to be honest.First, as Ron stated the current Citation X was released in 2003 and at the time of it's release was considered one of the absolute best payware aircraft of it's time.Second, as far as keeping people updated... that's a nasty, nasty double-edged sword. I've been a software developer for over 20 years, and I know of no company that releases updates (information) on products in development until they reach the beta stage... and then it's generally only info provided to the beta testers.We're all entitled to our opinion... but our opinion shouldn't imply something that's untrue (waste of $? refund was available) or inaccurate (implies the X is a current release, it's over 3yrs old!).

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I do enjoy the Citation 10 from EagleSoft. So far I think it's one of the bizjets out there. I've been looking for a long time for one that looked real and has lots of options. I will get the 2.0 when it comes out. I've been flying the FS for a long time. FS98-FSX had them all. I had Abacus Corp Pilot with FS 2K and 2K2 it was all right and looked at the new Corp Pilot was not impressed. I found a repaint for the CX here which lead me to EagleSoft. I got it in August have over 180 hours in it. I went around the world in 38.4 hours stopping in 7 countries and have 3 states left for all 50. I do enjoy it. I have over 1290 hours in FS, 180 of real time with Pvt and Inst Lic.I have downloaded some junk in my time in some cases messed up my FS and fun to fix. But as far as I'm concerned EagleSoft is one of the best.Have a great day and Fly away, Scot

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Methinks there is some competition at last!Airliner XP has announced the Airbus as everyone now knows but they have also said - 'The technology can go in to just about anything in main stream aircraft that you can imagine and, yes, a business jet (as mentioned above) is very high on AXP / DreamFleet's list.' This should sort the wheat from the chaff ;)

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>Methinks there is some competition at last!>>Airliner XP has announced the Airbus as everyone now knows but>they have also said - >'The technology can go in to just about anything in main>stream aircraft that you can imagine and, yes, a business jet>(as mentioned above) is very high on AXP / DreamFleet's list.'>>This should sort the wheat from the chaff ;)Haha, we are well aware of our friends Lou Betti and Jean Luc and their desire to do business jets and feel that they are quite capable of doing a good job.On the other hand, Team Eaglesoft has not been sitting on its hands regarding expansion and improvement of its Corporate Jet Series and AXP is not the only developer capable of keeping secrets.:-)At the end of the day, we view user choice as a healthy thing and and will continue with our improvement and expansion plans.>This should sort the wheat from the chaff

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