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Riah069

Feelthere Products

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Well ive perservied with there products, mainly there airbus vol1 and vol2.Last night i posted on there unofficial fourms cause i found out throgh someone checked the wilco site that SP3b was released. No one can post on there airbus fourms due to them being locked since last year.I asked why in #### they cant post and say HEY guys theres a new SP go get it at Wilco ENJOY!!Post got deleted. What? they cant say yes we will do that or this is the reason why we dont. Just delete the post and move on. For heaven sake they develoe the (((EDIT: This is a family friendly service. Use profanity again and you won't be posting.))) thing. I know this is a rant but you know like other people that have bought there products we HAVE paid good money and there Airbus series dont come cheaply either.Unfortunatly there the only ones atm that produce a decent Airbuse (FMC etc) And they know it. So i say Bring on Arliner XP and the other payware Airbus. And i pray to god they keep the moral relisation that YES people have bought our product AND they do have a voice.Mike

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One way to fix poor customer service is to not buy products from the poor customer service providers. I own and enjoy the PIC 737 and Vol 1 Airbus, even with the bugs. What irks me about Wilco/Feelthere is the attitude they have towards customers (like you pointed out). Wilco/Feelthere have a much "different" attitude towards customers than other payware places such as Aerosoft or Flight1. I refuse to buy Vol.2 because of this attitude, speak with your wallet.....

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I agree the wallet speaks the words. Very true statement :)I think it comes down to a amount of respect. Point in case Captain Sim Lousey PR shocking responces to peoples wishes and a lack of communication (Block F). Funny thing is that they all love THERE EULA that they can hide behind and exploit as they wish. So ok i have a product pay us well give you the product and we dont promise anything after that.Im not saying that all companys are like that.. On the contrary some have SUPURB service and it is a pleasure to to use and pay for the product. Just some of these guys need to buckle up and start listening and communicating. As alot are aware there seems to be this thing going around called the net that makes communcation easier, i guess some think they still have to put pen to paper to communicate LOL.Mike

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Hi Mike,My problem isn't so much with Feelthere as it is with Wilco. I will not purchase Feelthere products from Wilco. If no other means to purchase a Feelthere product exists (other than Wilco), I will not purchase the Feelthere product/add-on.

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Comes down to communication i think actually i used up my 3 downloads for the Airbus manual sent them a email saying please clear the token etc never received a response from them. I think between these 2 there is not a lot off communication.. Maybe there is but at the end of the day i think it Feeltheres responsibility to advise the customer on there forum as to weather theres a patch out.After all they pass that onto Wilco who then packs it and puts it up on there site.. Sloppy if you ask me.

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Mike,Save your money, "Wallet speak" is the only language that this bunch of Certified Comedians

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Your post was deleted because you were being very rude. Feelthere was a contractor for Wilco on those projects so your customer service problem is with Wilco. That is like calling Intel with your problems because your Dell is broke. You don't call Intel, you call Dell customer service. If FeelThere's contract with Wilco don't say they have to provide customer service, then they don't have to, you can't force them too. Not to mention by having to register via Wilco's site, it provides another barrier against pirating.

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>Your post was deleted because you were being very rude.>Feelthere was a contractor for Wilco on those projects so your>customer service problem is with Wilco. That is like calling>Intel with your problems because your Dell is broke. You don't>call Intel, you call Dell customer service. If FeelThere's>contract with Wilco don't say they have to provide customer>service, then they don't have to, you can't force them too.>Not to mention by having to register via Wilco's site, it>provides another barrier against pirating.Dan, you should go work for Wilco...you sound like you'd fit right in to their customer nonsupport department.If I buy a Dell computer and have a problem with the Vista OS installation that comes with it, I may very well indeed call Microsoft rather than Dell about the problem. And if I did call Dell, they'd first actually talk to me, and then end up sending me to MS, rather than giving me a zero-feedback e-mail drop box for my issues with little to no hope of actually being heard or helped. The Wilco support model sucks. For a long time FeelThere mitigated that by actually providing service on their website for their Wilco-published works. Until they abdicated their responsibility for supporting their products, they were OK in my book. Now, I have the same low opinion of them as I do of those whose skirts they are hiding behind.FeelThere may not have any legal obligation to provide service for their products, and certainly we cannot force them to, but we absolutely can and should hold them responsible for the woefully rotten state of customer service on their products.Until their support changes to something acceptable, I will not buy another FeelThere product, and I will continue to recommend that others do not. Every person that I convince to stay away represents $50 out of FeelThere's pockets. I can say definitively that their growing reputation for horrible customer service has cost them hundreds of dollars already at my hands.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

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>Your post was deleted because you were being very rude.>Feelthere was a contractor for Wilco on those projects so your>customer service problem is with Wilco. That is like calling>Intel with your problems because your Dell is broke. You don't>call Intel, you call Dell customer service. If FeelThere's>contract with Wilco don't say they have to provide customer>service, then they don't have to, you can't force them too.>Not to mention by having to register via Wilco's site, it>provides another barrier against pirating.I was being very rude? Doubtful would you like me to post what i had asked?I asked on the Feelthere Forums why No SP details were being provided and no announcement of the release of a SP. And if i look on there forums now there a quite a few people asking what was changed in SP3c. A simple statement would've been nice. But my post was deleted. Go Figure.CheersMike

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Hello and if you like to go to the feelthere forum you need a great bunch of humor.Look at this answer!!!>All Airbus communication including release dates for SPs and >details of these SPs are done by Wilco so please contact them.>Thank you>VicSorry i'm done with feelthere, they will never see money from my pocket again. It is a shame, they make not bad products (CitX, Legacy) but as customer you are the one who gives the money and after that "nothing else"! It would be ok, when this products would be bug free, but not a single one is thruly finish.Bruno

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Absolute CLASSIC. I think this topic says it all really it doesAnd sums up the whole problem over there LMAOAnd the request was JUST a list of bug fixes for the NEW SP. Because EVEN when you install theres no list in the installer/ No readme.. You have to go on blind Faith. Sorry i don't goto church its not my thing.http://www.iemit.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10092

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I never really had to contact Wilco support, so I cannot comment on the support issues.On one hand, I'd like to applaud FeelThere for just delivering enjoyable and reasonable complex add-ons, but on the other hand, even after 3 service packs there are still quite a few cosmetic issues with the A320. Maybe they have been fixed with the latest SP, but for me it's still way too late, because they have all been very obvious bugs that should not have been there in the first place (a lot of missing clickable switches in VC; night throttle textures in FSX). Still, their products are enjoyable and flyable for me and unlike products that have been announced months, if not years ago, like the Airsimmers A320 and the PMDG A320, FeelThere just delivers direly needed add-ons for FS9 and FSX. If there was just a little bit more testing and quality assurance, them FeelThere would rank for me just on the level on other highly praised add-ons.Pat

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.............andunlike products that have been announced months, if not yearsago, like the Airsimmers A320 and the PMDG A320, FeelTherejust delivers direly needed add-ons for FS9 and FSX.Problem is they are full of bugs and left unsupported.Why do you think the others take so long?Garry

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>... left unsupported.garry:service patches have been released.there is active discussion and support in the feelthere forums.unsupported means that you cannot contact the developer; and no service patches are released.--

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>.............and>unlike products that have been announced months, if not years>ago, like the Airsimmers A320 and the PMDG A320, FeelThere>just delivers direly needed add-ons for FS9 and FSX.>>Problem is they are full of bugs and left unsupported.>>Why do you think the others take so long?>>GarryMy opinion exactly. PMDG only announced that they started working on A320, nowhere near some working alpha product.Take a look how long 747 took to develop. And now look at what you have - most complex, bugfree addon for FS9/X. Does it ever crash? Hardly by PMDGs fault... Support? One of the best. Ask a question, you will have it answered inside of 48hrs, or at least a help to find the problem, EVEN if it's not PMDGs programming fault.I very much considered buying the Airbus Vol.1/2 products, but pretty fast tucked my CC away, after I read about all those posts and problems. Today, I only wish that their support was better and didn't have so many bugs. As everyone else, I am here to enjoy my hobby, and not to permanently fight various bugs and be aggrieved by the fact that I cannot fly something I paid for.Just as a little disgression, I won't say which company or product, but I recently bought one product, I was pretty much unsatisfied with it, it simply didn't fill my expectations and had some bugs that I couldn't live with, so I politely requested a refund and I got it. I can only say, that is a way to treat a customer. I will certainly buy again from the company, as I did in the past, because customer support is, lets say, 2nd thing for me, after the working bugfree product :-)Lets hope for Wilco's wellbeing that they will improve their support and that these stories become a thing of past.

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Call me stupid, but I rather have a product that I can use NOW than some product that might or might not see the light of day within in the FSX life cycle.I am getting tired of developers who generate a pre-hype with pre-mature announcements of their products (without having even an ALPHA version to present) and then are stumped when people dare to ask about a follow-up status. Airsimmers: Last lifesign, August 2007 "Pending release"; July 2007: "Soon, in a few weeks"; PMDG: Last lifesign: A year ago. If you read their forums: "It's ready when it's ready." Yea, I get that and just roll my eyes and move on.In the meantime, I'd rather fly around in with the Wilco. Most of the bugs are more inconveniences than really bugs that render the bird completely unflyable. The only thing that is outstanding for me are the two functional and visual issues that I posted before. There might be others, but they went up to now unnoticed by me. And I fly their A320 a lot.What people also seem to forget is that the Airbus flies a lot differently than any other aircraft and their fly-by-wire implementation (much before the FSX FBW implementation) is impressive. Since 2002 or so (PSS A320) we haven't had a more complete Airbus add-on, so, yea, if there are still a few bugs then I can understand that and live with it.Pat

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>Call me stupid, but I rather have a product that I can use>NOW than some product that might or might not see the light of>day within in the FSX life cycle.>>In the meantime, I'd rather fly around in with the Wilco. Most>of the bugs are more inconveniences than really bugs that>render the bird completely unflyable. The only thing that is>outstanding for me are the two functional and visual issues>that I posted before. There might be others, but they went up>to now unnoticed by me. And I fly their A320 a lot.>>PatOK stupid :-) (just kidding of course, you said it!) :)Those bugs you speak of, I heard, were some problems which are still not solved in FMC, choosing NO SID I think at CDG, or something. Some incompatibility with Navigraphs navdata, which still isn't worked out. And those incompatibilities end in CTDs, as far as I heard. And I still didn't hear that they repaired those. Maybe you know something that I don't.I certainly don't want to start the flight with an expectation of a CTD when choosing a STAR or pushing anything else in the FMC.I remember of some posts somewhere, where Navigraph stated that Wilco/Feelthere doesn't want to work out those problems with them, or something.And at the end of the day, lack of support, which not only one person reported, doesn't justify a product with bugs.

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Hm, I fly SID/STARs all the time. Just last week I downloaded the latest AIRAC with terminal procedures from Navigraph and had no problems with it whatsoever. I also never had a CTD. *shrug*.Granted, I never flew into CDG. I also heard the problems with the AIRACs earlier, but to my knowledge they have been ironed out way before the offical forums got closed.I totally agree with anyone that the FeelThere and Wilco alliance has its problems, that it is almost a tradition of Feelthere/Wilco to release their products unfinished and with many very, very obvious and simple to fix bugs, but nonetheless I have to give them some kudos to actually come out with an (FSX) product; something that seems to be more a rare occurrence nowadays.Pat

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>I certainly don't want to start the flight with an expectation>of a CTD when choosing a STAR or pushing anything else in the>FMC.I can confirm that they have fixed one of the CTD bugs with the latest release. You can now select "VOR" on the display without the entire sim crashing at some point, which is a small improvement.It would be an even bigger improvement if they actually published a list of what was in the latest Service Pack, rather than leaving it to their customers to guess or to divine it from the entrails of some small animal. But publishing a list of fixes in a Service Pack would be too obvious a "customer service" thing to do, and the Feelthere / Wilco double act just don't do "customer service". In fact, they seem consistently and intuitively to do whatever is the opposite of good customer service. When it comes to customer service, they live on the Dark Side. They are to customer service what Darth Vader was to stress counselling.What endlessly puzzles me is the way that Feelthere stick with this cruddy relationship with Wilco, which tarnishes everything they do, and instead of ditching Wilco, why they appear in forums such as this with disingenuous and halfhearted defenses of Wilco's ineptness. Feelthere remind me of some battered and humiliated woman who believes you should always "stand by your man".Petraeus

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I think that FeelThere is well aware of the problems with Wilco.I would be very surprised, if there wasn't any contractual/legal agreement, which prevents FeelThere from parting ways with Wilco. After all, Wilco without FeelThere wouldn't leave a whole lot....Pat

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I seem to recall, and btw thxs guys for posting, nice to know there are others out there with a problem like mine. Anyway back on topic. A guy asked the Feelthere team why this didn't work and that didn't work and later on down the track are you going to include this? The answer he received was "The airbus series was never going to as complex as the PIC737" What confounds me is WHY even say that ? LOLOk... Interesting so i guess the question is why in blazes do the plane in the 1st place??. If you re NOT going to do a proper job or put in 100% why do it at all? I think that this appears to be the problem, If you weren't going to do a decent job in the 1st place this is where all the bugs have come from. But as i always say "We'll see" Just that im not getting any younger

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>If you re NOT going to do a proper job>or put in 100% why do it at all? so PMDG should remove the 1900D from the marketplace because the panel uses default FS9 gauges that are not 100% true the the real-world aircraft ...so CLS should remove their products as the panels are not fully functional, have no FMC/MCDU, and don't model the Abus fly-by-wire control ...dreamfleet should also remove their aircraft models that should have FMCs but don't ...etc., etc., etc...each developer makes design decisions for their aircraft. some focus on visual representation, others on panels, etc.there is plenty market space for different developers to model different aircraft at differing levels of fidelity.--

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