In Standard->Control Geometry->Phase-Out, one can define a range of airspeeds during which control deflection is gradually phased-out, so that for the same stick deflection you get lower control deflection as the airspeed increases. This could be used to model the stiffening of the controls with airspeed.

That sounds interesting... good tip!

Geofa, now you need to tune the numbers (vertical rates VS power etc.). :)Who knows, maybe your Baron will be included with the default aircrafts for X-Plane v10? :(

I hope he will upload his panel/FM as freeware one day. Would sure be fun to fly in the Geofa Baron :(

That sounds interesting... good tip!I hope he will upload his panel/FM as freeware one day. Would sure be fun to fly in the Geofa Baron :(

I'd love to but I'll be a while getting it right. Then someone else would have to do the outside/3d cockpit as I have no idea how and I am using the payware version..

Well it was only a matter of time till I did some compares-but this certainly gives some ideas why I am excited...http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=243813

Well it was only a matter of time till I did some compares-but this certainly gives some ideas why I am excited...http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=243813

Geof you know the problem with Moose/deer on the runway in X-Plane is that they are everywhere. I just took off from KLGA and just as I began my roll a whole slew of them began running across the runway. I don't think you'd find Moose in New York City!! :(

I'm enjoying watching Geofa's "transformation" ;) Great pics comparing Ge99... I laughed at the ballooon comment.It's also good to have some real-world pilots who've been around simming for a while giving commentary - thanks guys. (Been reading your comments for about 12 years..)Something I'm really curious about is whether XP can somehow "use" an FS .air file (if I'm remember what they're called) - I know people write plugins all the time; maybe FS flight characteristics can somehow be translated as a starting point.I mention it because I'd personally spend more time in the XP 172 if it was closer to the training model I flew. The default in FS isn't -exactly- right for me, but it's much closer overall. As for XP - right now it takes too much effort to keep it level, but those of you who have flown a 172 (at least, a 1979 model with another adult up front) know in good air it's not hard to keep it level..So: convert .air files to X-Plane... "whatever" files. I don't know what they are but maybe it's a start?Thanks again guys.cheersAndrew

If the pilot/hydraulics are strong enough to deflect the control surfaces but the control surface cant withstand the forces I guess this is when the control surface could become damaged or even just rips off?

Yup, absolutely, in fact a good many pilots do not realise how dangerous putting full control deflection on at high speed can be. This is exactly what caused the destruction of American Airlines Flight 587, which was an Airbus A300 - it flew through the wake turbulence of a B747 which had taken off minutes before it from JFK. But it was not the wake turbulence which caused the crash, it was the First Officer's control inputs.The NTSB investigation into the crash concluded that the First Officer over-reacted to the turbulence with uneccessary control inputs, chiefly huge rudder deflections which eventually put so much sideways force on the vertical stabiliser that the entire tailfin separated from the aircraft, causing it to crash in Queens, NYC, killing several people on the ground and everyone on board the aircraft. Following this accident, American Airlines altered its training program for pilots.

Something I'm really curious about is whether XP can somehow "use" an FS .air file (if I'm remember what they're called) - I know people write plugins all the time; maybe FS flight characteristics can somehow be translated as a starting point.

That's completely possible, and actually it should be pretty easy to do.X-Plane could be driven by an external flight model via a plugin, and it would work this way:.the plugin loads MSFS airfile;then, for every frame:.the plugin reads the needed data (speeds, AoA, sideslip, control deflections, etc.) from X-Plane;.the plugin calculates the forces and moments using stability and control equations (that's just a handful of simple equations actually! :) );.the plugin writes back to X-Plane these forces and moments;.X-Plane does all the remaining calculations.The only thing to be overriden would be flight dynamics, since ground dynamics are pretty decent in X-Plane.Marco

Thanks for the reply, Marco.Maybe we're on the right track. I'm glad there are people much better than me at math ;)Andrew

Geof you know the problem with Moose/deer on the runway in X-Plane is that they are everywhere. I just took off from KLGA and just as I began my roll a whole slew of them began running across the runway. I don't think you'd find Moose in New York City!! :(

Hey-if I was a Moose/Deer in New York I think I'd make for a runway too-probably safest place to be! :-lolI think the Moose/Deer along with bug splats on the windshield are new for the beta-perhaps to be refined...I had my first bird strike last night-it wasn't pretty!

Hey-if I was a Moose/Deer in New York I think I'd make for a runway too-probably safest place to be! :-lolI think the Moose/Deer along with bug splats on the windshield are new for the beta-perhaps to be refined...I had my first bird strike last night-it wasn't pretty!

Another thing that needs to be refined that I noticed, is on Jets, the thrust reversers can be engaged in flight. Which of course technically they could be, but was locked down by the FAA/NTSB when engagement of midair thrust reversers was suspected as a/the cause for some accidents years ago.

I do find this interesting..........As to myself, I really don't care which sim eventually ends up with a better flight model. I own them both! :( I just want them to be believable. And, I don't want to be the "tweaker". I have no patience for it.From what is seen here, it's obvious that blade element theory needs tweaks; but then I already knew that. What it also shows, is that blade element theory isn't any closer to real flight than the lookup tables are. However, some seemto believe it is; and that's where we get so many "real versus game" reply's. In reality, both sims are only simulations......period. They are electronic images that create a sense of flight, through different methods. If nothing else, this dialogcould be very helpful for X-Planes cause! And BTW, I got a chuckle out of the remark, about adding Geoff's Baron to thedefault X-Planes list. Something along the lines of..............would Austin want it, since he considers the program perfection asis... :)L.Adamson

Another thing that needs to be refined that I noticed, is on Jets, the thrust reversers can be engaged in flight. Which of course technically they could be, but was locked down by the FAA/NTSB when engagement of midair thrust reversers was suspected as a/the cause for some accidents years ago.

Used to be common practice on the DC-8 to deploy thrust reversers (I believe on the inboard engines) in flight. On a couple of flights the pilot even warned us--and on one we were over a cloud deck. The feeling was as if hitting the brakes on a car, felt like we were going to fall out of the sky.

Used to be common practice on the DC-8 to deploy thrust reversers (I believe on the inboard engines) in flight. On a couple of flights the pilot even warned us--and on one we were over a cloud deck. The feeling was as if hitting the brakes on a car, felt like we were going to fall out of the sky.

If you push the blue knob (constant speed prop) in, before it's time; it will do the same thing. It will push you forward against the seat beltrather abruptly, and you feel it in your stomach. Flight sims don't portray the braking effects of C/S props very well either, if at all.L.Adamson

That's completely possible, and actually it should be pretty easy to do.X-Plane could be driven by an external flight model via a plugin...

This plug-in would be excellent!

Taking a licensed product made for FS and 'porting' it to X-Plane would violate the licensing agreement for the FS product.