Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Midnight Music

Does Nhancer help?

Recommended Posts

With a brand new i7 computer with a GeForce GTX 295 graphics card running the display at 1680 by 1050 at 32 bit does it pay to have Nhancer on with Nick's tweaks? I can't really see the difference and I wonder if there's any performance hit. I'm running Vista 64 bit with sp1 which I'm actually finding rather stable and smooth. I'm curious if anyone has some thoughts on this.Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

I had the blurries on my system but once i followed nick's setup and installed enhancer they were a thing of the past.Just%20Kidding.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
With a brand new i7 computer with a GeForce GTX 295 graphics card running the display at 1680 by 1050 at 32 bit does it pay to have Nhancer on with Nick's tweaks? I can't really see the difference and I wonder if there's any performance hit. I'm running Vista 64 bit with sp1 which I'm actually finding rather stable and smooth. I'm curious if anyone has some thoughts on this.Lee
Yes, it does pay to use nHancer if you are running FSX in DX9. nHancer will allow you to use 8xs AA mode which is not available under the Nvidia Control Panel. Utilization of the 8xs AA mode will greatly increase overall image quality within FSX. There is no performance hit using nHancer.If you are running in DX10 preview, nHancer will be of no use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
With a brand new i7 computer with a GeForce GTX 295 graphics card running the display at 1680 by 1050 at 32 bit does it pay to have Nhancer on with Nick's tweaks? I can't really see the difference and I wonder if there's any performance hit. I'm running Vista 64 bit with sp1 which I'm actually finding rather stable and smooth. I'm curious if anyone has some thoughts on this.Lee
A little off topic but how is that GTX 295? I always hear FSX is more CPU dependent but after seeing the 295's specs....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A little off topic but how is that GTX 295? I always hear FSX is more CPU dependent but after seeing the 295's specs....
295 is useless to FSX.. waste of the 2nd core and shared memory since FSX will not use it285 is not.. 285 is the card of choice for FSX and i7DX10 is its own animal.. all settings are made in the FSX interface .. both AA and AF must be set in the Graphics settings of FSX as Nhancer will have no influence in DX10 mode. The user must remember to set those back as my list shows when running DX9 (uncheck AA and set AF to Trilinear)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
295 is useless to FSX.. waste of the 2nd core and shared memory since FSX will not use it285 is not.. 285 is the card of choice for FSX and i7DX10 is its own animal.. all settings are made in the FSX interface .. both AA and AF must be set in the Graphics settings of FSX as Nhancer will have no influence in DX10 mode. The user must remember to set those back as my list shows when running DX9 (uncheck AA and set AF to Trilinear)
Nick, I was wondering about Trilinear. I have always used Aniso, as it provided me better performance. I have tried going back to Trilinear thinking it would improve my frames, but the clarity is just not there compared to anisio. I have upgraded video cards since, and am in process of OC, but I will try both Tri and Anisio when I get to that point with my new card. I never really did not do any reading about the two to see what the differences were. I just know my system performed better using Anisio. ThanksBob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nHancer will allow you to use 8xs AA mode which is not available under the Nvidia Control Panel.
Sarg, I always assumed the two modes in the nV control panel when used together: 8x and Supersampling AA Transparency = 8xs. No?Noel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Transparency AA only applies to transparency textures, and has no effet on object or edge AA. Transparency AA is used simply because multisample AA does not work with transparency textures. All AA modes in the Nv CP are multisampling, with 4x, 8xQ, 16xQ being standard multisampling, and 8x, 16x being coverage sample AA, which are are forms of multisampling with a reduced stored color/z sample. Supersample AA actually renders the entire scene at 1x2 or 2x2 your screen resolution in the frame buffer, then applies multisampling. So if using 1600x1200, 8xS renders 1600x2400 internally, downsamples back to 1600x1200, which creates an antialiased image, and then applies 4x multisampling to that. 8xSQ would render at 3200x2400, then apply 2x mutisampling. Unlike multisampling, supersampling works on transparency textures as well, so you don't need transparency AA with it, and while you can still enable it, doing so would be redundant as transparencies are already getting the 1x2 or 2x2 supersample treatment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To show you the (imho huge) benefit of 8xS, here are some zoomed in (with Photoshop) comparisonshots I made a long time ago:TreesCS8x.jpgTrees8xS.jpgGliderCS8x.jpgGlider8xS.jpgBuildingCS8x.jpgBuilding8xS.jpgWaterCS8x.jpgWater8xS.jpgDistanceCS8x.jpgDistance8xS.jpg8xs looks a lot smoother and shows a lot more detail! Trees become trees instead of cluttered pixels, lines are lines instead of rows of pixels, rows of windows become rows of windows instead of randomly placed pixels... :( nHancer really does help!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To show you the (imho huge) benefit of 8xS, here are some zoomed in (with Photoshop) comparisonshots I made a long time ago:TreesCS8x.jpgTrees8xS.jpgGliderCS8x.jpgGlider8xS.jpgBuildingCS8x.jpgBuilding8xS.jpgWaterCS8x.jpgWater8xS.jpgDistanceCS8x.jpgDistance8xS.jpg8xs looks a lot smoother and shows a lot more detail! Trees become trees instead of cluttered pixels, lines are lines instead of rows of pixels, rows of windows become rows of windows instead of randomly placed pixels... :( nHancer really does help!!!
Thanks Jeroen. What transparency setting did you have the Coverage Sample 8X? Did you have Multisampling or Supersampling checked? That is what I was trying to compare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Noel,In nHancer under the AA tab you check Combined and 8xs and leave the multi- and super- Transparency AA check boxes Unchecked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NICKI once sAW A TUTORAIL for nhancer that i thought you put together. I had to reinstall my PC and was wonder if you could point me back to it again. I have allready done your winXP tweaks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Noel,In nHancer under the AA tab you check Combined and 8xs and leave the multi- and super- Transparency AA check boxes Unchecked.
Man I just don't see it. I have flown several flights with nH at 8xs, and several with nV at 8x with supersampled trans, and I prefer the latter. I see no difference in smoothness/perf either. Plus, in my Cessna 441 when I pan the VC I get some ripples with 8xs that I don't get in 8x or 4x multi or super, and this is independent of the BP setting. YMMV I guess!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Man I just don't see it. I have flown several flights with nH at 8xs, and several with nV at 8x with supersampled trans, and I prefer the latter. I see no difference in smoothness/perf either. Plus, in my Cessna 441 when I pan the VC I get some ripples with 8xs that I don't get in 8x or 4x multi or super, and this is independent of the BP setting. YMMV I guess!
Thats because you are on a 280 card.. a much different animal than others and long after I posted the best perf/visual settings for Nhancerand yes, YMMV especially when you hit multilayer overcast clouds.. you may then want to go back to 8xS Combined but that will also depend on if you hit them over a major hub or out in the boonies
NICKI once sAW A TUTORAIL for nhancer that i thought you put together. I had to reinstall my PC and was wonder if you could point me back to it again. I have allready done your winXP tweaks.
The entire tuning thread is here with the direct link to Nhancer settings under the Nhancer section: http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=29041

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NickThanksI had a dual crash on my PC. RAM and WD 10K Raptor. I still wonder if they are related. Anway Had to reinstall Windows and THe whole bit, tuning is Almost as fun as flying FSX.Thanks Again For Your Great Tutorials!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thats because you are on a 280 card.. a much different animal than others and long after I posted the best perf/visual settings for Nhancerand yes, YMMV especially when you hit multilayer overcast clouds.. you may then want to go back to 8xS Combined but that will also depend on if you hit them over a major hub or out in the booniesThe entire tuning thread is here with the direct link to Nhancer settings under the Nhancer section: http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=29041
A much different animal eh. How so? Do you mean to tell me you weren't using one with nH 8xs at some point in the past? Somehow I missed that 8xs was not for 280GTX'ers. Nick, what is the benefit of 8xs from a theoretical standpoint, ie which *should* it offer improvements?In Oct 08 you posted, "COMBINED 8xS is what I use to eliminate shimmers in FSX". I don't have shimmers for starters, so perhaps that is why I'm not seeing anything added. Perhaps the adding has to do with better performance, which I have not really tested for. I made a very cool video flying around Kauai using Fraps, some pretty heavy weather & rain and stayed locked on 30 frames as usually, dedicating FRAPS to the 4th core only. Amazing! I had some IZ playing in the background, started with the helicopter hovering 6' off the water with the sunrise and clouds in the background, reflections off the ocean, then morphed into the beech flying into PHLI. Flawless performance during moviemaking at 30 frames movie capture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Noel,In nHancer under the AA tab you check Combined and 8xs and leave the multi- and super- Transparency AA check boxes Unchecked.
Sarg, do you see any benefits from 8xs? I'm not seeing anything so far. I get no shimmers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sarg, do you see any benefits from 8xs? I'm not seeing anything so far. I get no shimmers.
See my screenshots some posts above yours. If you can't see the difference, then don't bother. :( But I see even more differences when everything is actually moving! This afternoon, while I was in a FSX-tweaking mood, I once again experimented with various FSAA settings. And again I came to the same conclusion: 8xs beats the ###### out of any other FSAA method. When I use other methods I get flickering trees (as if the graphics card can't decide which pixels to use to show the trees and keeps on swithing between them) and 'moire' over for instance high buildings with lots of windows: unless I pause the game I see lines moving across the squares. All in all I see things move where things shouldn't move whenever I don't use 8xs and things look way too 'busy'. With 8xs everything looks er... normal! It's really the best. BTW I have a GTX285 and still 8xs is the best... It's a different animal indeed, but it still benefits from 8xs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Noel,I have to agree 100% with J van E's statements above. I get the best visuals hands down with 8xs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
See my screenshots some posts above yours. If you can't see the difference, then don't bother. :( But I see even more differences when everything is actually moving! This afternoon, while I was in a FSX-tweaking mood, I once again experimented with various FSAA settings. And again I came to the same conclusion: 8xs beats the ###### out of any other FSAA method. When I use other methods I get flickering trees (as if the graphics card can't decide which pixels to use to show the trees and keeps on swithing between them) and 'moire' over for instance high buildings with lots of windows: unless I pause the game I see lines moving across the squares. All in all I see things move where things shouldn't move whenever I don't use 8xs and things look way too 'busy'. With 8xs everything looks er... normal! It's really the best. BTW I have a GTX285 and still 8xs is the best... It's a different animal indeed, but it still benefits from 8xs.
I too have a GTX285, but I have not yet experimented. I have always used the Combined 8xs. What are you doing different, if anything at all from Nicks nHancer setting recommendations? A little of subject, but what video driver are you using?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A much different animal eh. How so? Do you mean to tell me you weren't using one with nH 8xs at some point in the past? Somehow I missed that 8xs was not for 280GTX'ers. Nick, what is the benefit of 8xs from a theoretical standpoint, ie which *should* it offer improvements?In Oct 08 you posted, "COMBINED 8xS is what I use to eliminate shimmers in FSX". I don't have shimmers for starters, so perhaps that is why I'm not seeing anything added. Perhaps the adding has to do with better performance, which I have not really tested for. I made a very cool video flying around Kauai using Fraps, some pretty heavy weather & rain and stayed locked on 30 frames as usually, dedicating FRAPS to the 4th core only. Amazing! I had some IZ playing in the background, started with the helicopter hovering 6' off the water with the sunrise and clouds in the background, reflections off the ocean, then morphed into the beech flying into PHLI. Flawless performance during moviemaking at 30 frames movie capture.
OK, back upWhat I meant is you have a card that can run the transparency settings and get away with it on perf. You would never even begin to be able to attempt that on a 88-9800 card and regardless of the 200 series you will eventually see a perf hit using transparency somewhere most likely related to weather. None the less, let me make myself perfectly clear... the BEST PERFORMANCE to BEST VISUAL compare comes from using COMBINED 8xS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
See my screenshots some posts above yours. If you can't see the difference, then don't bother. :( But I see even more differences when everything is actually moving! This afternoon, while I was in a FSX-tweaking mood, I once again experimented with various FSAA settings. And again I came to the same conclusion: 8xs beats the ###### out of any other FSAA method. When I use other methods I get flickering trees (as if the graphics card can't decide which pixels to use to show the trees and keeps on swithing between them) and 'moire' over for instance high buildings with lots of windows: unless I pause the game I see lines moving across the squares. All in all I see things move where things shouldn't move whenever I don't use 8xs and things look way too 'busy'. With 8xs everything looks er... normal! It's really the best. BTW I have a GTX285 and still 8xs is the best... It's a different animal indeed, but it still benefits from 8xs.
Yes I saw the difference J, in the still pictures, at least in most of the stills. One of them I think I could see no differences in. I'll play around some more and see if there is anything there for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I too have a GTX285, but I have not yet experimented. I have always used the Combined 8xs. What are you doing different, if anything at all from Nicks nHancer setting recommendations? A little of subject, but what video driver are you using?
Er... how do you mean 'what are you doing different'...? Do you mean you still get 'moving trees and windows' with 8xs? Or...? Your question seems to say you are getting different results, but it's not clear what results you mean... Are you talking about FSAA or fps or...?I set everything up with Nicks settings for nHancer, but use altered ingame settings. Currently I am experimenting with Bandwidth and Bufferpools, but they have nothing to do with nHancer and/or FSAA. (And they don't seem to make much difference either when it comes to fps, I have to say). Right now I use the 182.08 drivers. Every now and then when I think about it, I use new drivers. But I can't say they make any difference when it comes to FSX.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes I saw the difference J, in the still pictures, at least in most of the stills. One of them I think I could see no differences in. I'll play around some more and see if there is anything there for me.
I don't know how you are testing now, but to make comparing the various FSAA modes a LOT easier, you can alt-enter FSX to windowed mode, change any nHancer setting you want (simply keep the nHancer window open!), and alt-enter FSX back to full screen: any change you make will be applied then! This way you can easily and quickly test the differences. So take a flight not too high above a big city with trees and high buildings and closely watch if things are moving more than they should. When I have 8xs on, everything passes by smoothly (not talking about fps here, but everything passes by and it doesn't move by itself): when I turn on another FSAA mode, I see the trees 'move', I see lines on the windows, I can even see groundtextures in the distance 'move': there is movement everywhere, while only the cars on the road should move! :( Anyway, using alt-enter > change nHancer > alt-enter again works great for comparing FSAA modes, because when you completely quit the game and start it all over, it takes waaaaaay too long and you will have forgotten already how it looked before the change. Using this method you can compare modes in seconds.BTW Only use this 'method' to compare FSAA modes: don't test any fps-related settings like this! In order to REALLY HONESTLY test fps you will have to restart the computer after every test... (I don't always do that: I quite often simply only restart FSX, but in that case I only compare results that were all done after simply restarting FSX and I keep in the back of my mind that results may degrade over time. Restarting the computer completely will usually give better and more comparable results fps-wise. When I use the quick-test-method and I think I have found a tweak that REALLY helps (they are hard to find) I always restart the computer and load FSX completely fresh to see what the result REALLY is... :( )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know how you are testing now, but to make comparing the various FSAA modes a LOT easier, you can alt-enter FSX to windowed mode, change any nHancer setting you want (simply keep the nHancer window open!), and alt-enter FSX back to full screen: any change you make will be applied then! This way you can easily and quickly test the differences.
Now that is a nice practical tip I was not aware of. Thanks, I'll give that a whirl . . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites