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Saturn_V

PMDG MD-11 performance data for FSBuild

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Hello to all,Like many of you I use FSBuild as my flight planning tool. I was however not satisfied with the calculations made by using the default MD-11 GE file. It gives the wrong cruise levels and the fuel burn figures are not accurate enough. I

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Hi,I know it is trendy and fashonable these days to hide behind copyright laws to avoid sharing useful information on this very forum. I am surprised however to learn that FSBuild performance datas are banned from appearing on this forum. I would have thought most of these performance data sheets are the fruit of personal work done by FSBuild enthusiasts and could be published with the simple consent of the author. Could any of the bright minds floating around here enlighten me as to why such rule?Anyway a lot of very useful and accurate information can be found elsewhere on the web. For example this site: http://elearning.ians.lu/aircraftperforman...amp;ICAOFilter= I would think Eurocontrol may be an acceptable source for the PMDG "standards"!Come on guys grow up and don't use fallacious excuses not to share information. This kind of attitude does not add to the image of this forum and the image of the aircraft manufacturers the developers are using for their products.I certainly disapprove illegal material and any help given to find / source illegal material, but here we are talking about either individual hardwork of end users or public manufacturer's technical information.I hate to be emotional but when I see this growing trend of hiding behind discutable reasons for sharing public information it makes me sad when looking back a few years at this community which at that time was mostly made of knowledgeable, helpful, simmers and airline professionals.Cheers

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Come on guys grow up and don't use fallacious excuses not to share information.
Perhaps you should do some growing up yourself before accusing everyone of vast conspiracies, excuses or deliberate hiding of data that you decided should be freely available. :(

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Why not put your files on AVSIM, there is nothing illegal with the work you have done or with passing said work on, PMDG and Boeing cant touch you because the data you collated was made with a simulation not the real aircraft. I still cant figure out why a top outfit like PMDG cant include their own flight and fuel planning software for their fleet, then the copyrighted/restricted data could be used to allow us to use their aircraft realistically, without Boeing's lawyers making another penny.

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I am surprised however to learn that FSBuild performance datas are banned from appearing on this forum. I would have thought most of these performance data sheets are the fruit of personal work done by FSBuild enthusiasts and could be published with the simple consent of the author.
Why not put your files on AVSIM, there is nothing illegal with the work you have done or with passing said work on, PMDG and Boeing cant touch you because the data you collated was made with a simulation not the real aircraft.
Maybe I should

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HiYou could also contact the FSBuild author Ernie Alston so he can host it in the www.fsbuild.com performance data library.-Kyle

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HiYou could also contact the FSBuild author Ernie Alston so he can host it in the www.fsbuild.com performance data library.-Kyle
Thank you for your confidence Kyle, but first I want to make sure that the majority of users give positive feedback. It would be even more encouraging if someone from the development team or the beta team would give their opinion!Right now the files work, that is, they work for me. Other users however may have different opinions. I would first like to work on those differences before I release the files into the public domain.

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I see that avsim doesn't allow compressed zip archives either... ;)So what do they allow? Is there a list available?Andrew

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Thank you for your confidence Kyle, but first I want to make sure that the majority of users give positive feedback. It would be even more encouraging if someone from the development team or the beta team would give their opinion!Right now the files work, that is, they work for me. Other users however may have different opinions. I would first like to work on those differences before I release the files into the public domain.
Hi Brian,Sorry I misunderstood your post this morning. My comments were not directed at you in any way and mean. If you need someone to test your file send me a PM maybe I could help. I have some background in different aircraft profiles aulthoguh I am not affiliated with the PMDG team.Cheers

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Hi Brian,Sorry I misunderstood your post this morning. My comments were not directed at you in any way and mean. If you need someone to test your file send me a PM maybe I could help. I have some background in different aircraft profiles aulthoguh I am not affiliated with the PMDG team.Cheers
Hello mr. Clavier,No offense taken, with my response I only wanted to make sure no one visiting this forum has the impression that the Avsim forums are sensoring FSBuild or something like that. I've send you a PM. Thanks!

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Well, after flex data I've begun tweaking the performance data for FSBuild. Luckily all responses from people, who requested and used the data, are positive. However, I'm not completely satisfied yet. The parts I've paid most attention to thus far are also the parts that work best. These are: cruise and optimum flight levels. The other parts, climb and descent are not yet functioning perfectly. The climb fase uses too much fuel and the descent part not enough (according to FSBuild that is). Luckily for me they kind of eliminate each other, so in the end all is rather well. But that is not how it's supposed to be. As of now the situation is bit like this (just an example):

FSBuild / PMDG Take-off 58500 / 58500 lbs climb pred. 14900 / 10600 lbs difference - 4300 lbs TOC 43600 / 47900 lbs cruise pred. 19300 / 18200 lbs difference - 1100 lbs TOD 24300 / 29700 lbs descent pred. 1600 / 3800 lbs difference + 2200 lbs Landing 22700 / 25900 lbs

So, the overall difference is 3200 lbs (sometimes less). Not too bad I guess. The cruise part is the easiest to correct. Climb and descent are more difficult (as I explained in the opening post). As of yesterday I've begun doing some test take-offs at different TOGW (approximately 10) and instead of looking for differences, this time I'll be looking for similarities (contrary to what I thought those similarities really exist). In the mean time you could help me by answering some questions: 1. What's your average TOGW with what version? MD-11(F)GE or MD-11(F)PW? 2. What's your average payload? 1/3, 2/3 or full? 3. How much fuel do you normally plan to land with (alternate not included)? The more information you give, the more exact the file will be! Thanks,

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In the mean time you could help me by answering some questions: 1. What's your average TOGW with what version? MD-11(F)GE or MD-11(F)PW? 2. What's your average payload? 1/3, 2/3 or full? 3. How much fuel do you normally plan to land with (alternate not included)? The more information you give, the more exact the file will be! Thanks,
1. i usually use PW version, depending on length of flight generally TOGW is in the 450-550k range2. usually i hit 2/3 or full, but i don't really have an average there3. i generally aim to have 20k leftover but that's because i'm lazy about calculating alternates and doing the math for all the regulations (45 minutes or 10% for international etc,) mostly to avoid getting fuel low warning which kicks in around 12-13kone question i have is what cost index are you using to compile all this data? anyway i'll send you a pm, i made a similar file for the PW version, but only collected climb and descent data because i haven't really had time to do the cruise stuff (i use the cruise numbers from the md-11 version that comes with fsbuild already which are apparently from the book)... perhaps the numbers might be interesting to compare. i often get to within about +1000-2000 lbs of predicted, but the flight levels come out weird unless i use an insane cost index..at 675 they line up pretty well with what the FMC predicts, but it is my understanding that values around 10-100 are more realistic. (also, the fmc calculates climb speed strangely and possibly incorrectly with high values of CI).. dropping from 675 to 100 usually results in only an extra few thousand lbs at landing so i've just been living with that..when i made a profile for the mustang one of the hardest things i found to tweak was that fsbuild interpolates along pretty big steps in between waypoints so unless you have a lot of points in your climb and descent the calculated values can vary a lot..anyway thanks for workin on this, it's very useful i know a lot of people are looking for itcheers,-andy crosby

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Hey Guys,I'm in the same boat with Saturn_V regarding an FSBuild file for the MD-11. But I have taken a slightly different approach. After some calibrations, I noticed that the actual burns were a bit more frugal than the FMS was predicting. So after a few months of trial and error on cruise flows and optimum climbs, I made a flight and compared the data. They were all within 2% of eachother. Since I always thought the PMDG was a bit frugal I edited the FSBuild cruise bias and .cfg flow scalar a bit. I also edited the fsb_aircraft.cfg with actual PMDG OEW, made it default to KGS and set the parameters I am used to. Which are actual alternate fuels, 30 minutes of final reserve fuel, 15 minutes of extra company fuel and 3% of route reserve fuel. Lastly I inserted a nice landing KLM MD-11 as aircraft picture.As it is now, I get to within 10 minutes and within 400-500 Kgs on 8-hour plus legs.I never thought about uploading these because my technique also edits the fsb_aircraft.cfg and the aircraft.cfg files, but if anyone is interested in trying it out anyways, icluding Saturn_V to compare notes. Drop me a line at xkoote@hotmail.comXanderEDIT: Almost forgot the second reason I am posting. I use the GE models exclusively with average all up weights of 250.000 KG's. Cost Index at 75. Be aware that changing cost index also changes the OPT and MAX levels and the time at which the FMC's command a step climb.

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