For the most part, I agree with the original poster. By working around problems, we already have most of the improvements in FS2002. I remind everyone that after FS2002, there was quite a bit of delay until we had all the SDK's necessary for scenery design. So, people dove into the mysteries of BGLC, and discovered (and shared) how to edit the AFD files and alter AI aircraft fligthplans. After we figured out how to do this, MS finally came out with the SDK's telling us what we already knew. They could have saved us a lot of trouble by doing this earlier.Now I think to COF - Many of the improvements are things that they probably should have put into FS2002 to begin with. Still, some people don't want to fiddle around too much or buy add-ons, and I respect that. Truthfully, different aspects of COF will appeal to different people. The only part that I am interested in is the improved ATC at airports, but, again, it should have been like that to begin with.On a side note, I was looking at the screenshots of COF, and I am definitely not impressed with MS aircraft. Check out the big orange Soar Airlines 747 - not much of a paintjob. Some of the other aircraft have good textures, but still they could be better. Maybe they should concentrate on improving the game engine, and not worry about making aircraft anymore since freeware designers definitely have them beat. - Martin

Very good original post, Mike of PDX. The cost of upgrading isn't just the price of the sim, but the hassle of tweaking & optimizing the setup and of migrating/patching the slew of add-ons. Not to mention hardware upgrades[off topic gripe: Someone once pointed out, and it bears repeating how annoying it is that almost all payware shops collect our email addresses, but almost none send notifications when patches or upgrades become available -- kudos to Radar Contact and FS Meteo, notable exceptions.]But, to echo the thoughts of subsequent posters, what's another 60 bucks toward the hobby I'm so addicted to. Heck, I can only get a half hour of touch and goes in the pattern in real life aviation for $60...A feature I've heard mentioned in FS2004 which is compelling to me is enhanced support for 3d displays across multiple monitors. I'm hoping that means an end to my struggle to get WideView to work, but I'm not holding my breath.

You're completely right.But, bear in mind that In my opinion, most people in this world are willing to pay for even the worst crap if only the ads and the package look pretty.M$ aims at consumers of age 20 and well below with this game -- children, in fact. FS is a childs toy. And, M$ can afford to put out one crappy stuff after another: because the package bears the 'honorful' M$ logo. For the major part of people, a computer is 'a pentium' and 'Windows'. Ask them for BSD, OS-X or Sparc. It's useless to think about this sad fact.And as long as M$ produces buggy products and is backed by people with much influence, they can go on indefinitely. And, after all, FS is not the only crappy product from M$: all the others are as well.On the other hand: there doesn't seem to be someone developing an alternative (did I hear something about Fly!3 ?!). It's a result of capitalism and the 'free market'. So we all have to stick with FS as it is. A pity.Andreas

Mike's post is a real good one, and on time.Sure there are thoughts about the need for MSFS2004 and those thoughts are well reflected in this thread. But I wish to look at the issue from a different angle, namely the long term effect of MS's inovation on our ever developing hobby.Just try to imagine how our game technology will look like in 2013. No more flat screens, instead projectors (or maybe lasers) creating 3D objects floating in front of us with no need for special glasses to watch them. Super home computers free of frame rate problems (already now PC's double their performance every year). High resolution, real looking terrain and sceneries. Super on-line flying technology that will create real ATC and a lot of affordable hardware that will make flying much more realistic. In short; our home sims will resemble the professional simulators commercial and military pilots use today.Now, how will all this be possible without ever devoloping software to go along with computer technology? MS (and I really hate the term M$) is the key to that. If not a new flight simulator every two years or so, and the SDK's coming with it, also the add-on developers will slow down with their creativity and finally the game will come to a halt.So, please guys, be happy with MS and the new flight simulator, because it is a further step toward the ultimate home simulator.Have funSeev

You know you're getting old when you remember these type of messages before every release of flight simulator. The main theme in your posting is that all the new features are already available via payware or freeware addons. True. No argument. So why will I purchase it? Because the integration factor. Not all of these addons get along with each other. Maybe in some machines they do, but not in all. This integration effort also elevates the baseline for better addons. Developers will be motivated to produce new, more versatile stuff than what's included with default FSCOF. I'm sure they won't get along with each other perfectly, but for that, there's the next FS version. Regards,David Vega

Hi, The problem with the original post if you read again and again it's a joke :-lol, he actually know nothing about fs2004 example: to what extent, fair to assume, I have not seen any statement, if or maybe or bla bla bla.. 3rd party addon NEVER change the limitation in the engine and you paid ALOT $$ for only "minor improvement", if you want to blow 500$ on 3rd party addons for "minor improvement", you are in serious problems. Before you talk like a child, think before and wait. I only read what you have said on the weather, I am wonder where you came from.BestEric

Hi, "The cost of upgrading isn't just the price of the sim, but the hassle of tweaking & optimizing the setup and of migrating/patching the slew of add-ons. Not to mention hardware upgrades"You remind me the release of FLY I and Fly II, major problem and bugs in both never fixed.BestEric

Hi, "And as long as M$ produces buggy products "Fly II, major problem with bugs never fixed."On the other hand: there doesn't seem to be someone developing an alternative (did I hear something about Fly!3 ?!)" Because they relase worst unfinished product either.BestEric

My criteria for upgrading:Will COF work with active camera pro?Has the unlimited visibility bug in downloaded weather been fixed?Will PAI installers work?I quite like FS2002 chugging away on my 1.4G/GF3ti450 rig but I'm inclined to buy once all the dust has settled as I guess that COF will be the final version of the "FS2000" graphics engine before they do a serious overhaul.

One thing we forget sometimes is that each FS release brings in a number of NEW flightsimmers. I know of several co-workers who became avid flightsimmers in late 2001 (with the 2K2 release); none of whom had ever touched the product previously.I have been in since FS-3, which ran well on my P286-12mHz, with 40 meg hard drive.Some of us will not continue to "upgrade", and many will. One day, I will probably move on to something else, as the sim-world is great, it only marginally satiates my drive to fly.Don't woory too much about what people say.I'm certain Microsoft is making plenty of money on these releases, or they would not be doing them.

I would rather see Flight Unlimited 4 :-)Chris Low,ENGLAND.

OK, so FS2006 might be worth considering then.......Chris Low,ENGLAND.

Fs2006??? Cool I'm going to be the first to get that!!j/k- bring on Fs2004 or whatever it will be called...can't wait!

Boy, talk about free speech. This tread is a good example of it.:-lol I

hi, If a 3rd party addons was available in fs2002 that's make volumetric clouds and dynamic sky system etc, they will paid 40$ only for this :-lolThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs