It's a Sad Day When it gets like this .. Orbx is closed

[N400QW 205]

All these semantic arguments always seem fun until you are the one who has been stolen from.By the way-I bought this product-promptly left for a two week trip-came back and found my computer trashed.When I went to re download found that my link had expired...I remain orbxless a year and half later.I didn't blame the orbix folks though....Imho simmers are missing the real point . Our fragile flight sim world is a sinking ship due to many factors-piracy being one-and it seems instead of helping plug the hole and trying to help people are complaining all the way down. My perspective not as an official "mod" but as a flight sim enthusiast since 1981....

Geof, our conversations at Oshkosh about the state of our beloved Hobby still ring true as we observe the attitudes shown in this thread concerning software piracy. :(

[Guest Mesa]

Mesa, If you think I'm refering to the method used by FSD you've missed the point entirely.To clarify: Vendor A releases Product A which contains a schema which renders Product A unusable (read unfit for use) in the event that Hacker A attempts to hack.Such a schema would have no effect on Legitimate Users since Legitimate Users do not attempt to hack software. :(

Yes, I have missed your point entirely. But, to clarify:Is Hacker A the chap who purchased Product A from Vendor A? If he had purchased Product A legitimately (and someone has to, at least in the beginning) then why would he need to hack it? If however Hacker A who purchased Product A then put it on a torrent site together with a crack/keygen (which, again, would happen within days no matter what the 'schema' - by the way isn't a serial number a 'schema' which renders the product unusable if it is not correct?) then Hackers B,C,D etc would download Product A, apply the crack/keygen and Vendor A would be none the wiser. FSD's method however would render the product unusable (read unfit for use) if Hacker A was even suspected of hacking down a tree in his back yard. But it did work, albeit in a 'catch all' kind of way.I thought that was what you meant. Apologies if I missed your point :(But Geofa is right. It's all just semantics anyway.

[Geofa 108]

Geof, our conversations at Oshkosh about the state of our beloved Hobby still ring true as we observe the attitudes shown in this thread concerning software piracy. :(

Unfortunately-yes. Let's hope the other aspects of our conversation don't come to fruition.

[Mike... 7]

C. Should Add On Vendors simply roll over and play brain dead? Hardly. Addon Vendors do have options to consider....

Exactly, but let them consider options not involving rubbing (potential) paying customers the wrong way.I only sim in Europe and North America, so I'm not personally affected by this all, but if I were interested in flying Down Under, then a stunt like this would've certainly cost them a sale or more from me, as I'm increasingly wary of the things I have to endure as a legimate end user.Piracy will never disappear, I do not condone it, in fact I have been chastised on these forums for speaking out against it, but it will not go away. I think it's naive to think every instance of piracy constitutes a lost sale. The majority doesn't, not that anyone has any reliable figures... As much as developers want to and can do about it, it is out of their hands. The only thing they remain in control of, is the relationship between them and their paying customers...

[N400QW 205]

Yes, I have missed your point entirely. But, to clarify:Is Hacker A the chap who purchased Product A from Vendor A? If he had purchased Product A legitimately (and someone has to, at least in the beginning) then why would he need to hack it? If however Hacker A who purchased Product A then put it on a torrent site together with a crack/keygen (which, again, would happen within days no matter what the 'schema' - by the way isn't a serial number a 'schema' which renders the product unusable if it is not correct?) then Hackers B,C,D etc would download Product A, apply the crack/keygen and Vendor A would be none the wiser. FSD's method however would render the product unusable (read unfit for use) if Hacker A was even suspected of hacking down a tree in his back yard. But it did work, albeit in a 'catch all' kind of way.I thought that was what you meant. Apologies if I missed your point :( But Geofa is right. It's all just semantics anyway.

First, forget the FSD Method. That method tracks pirates. The option as outlined is a new paradigm for software creators/vendors to protect their investment.It is common practice for pirates to purchase a new release, hack, then distribute the hacked version...If Hacker A obtains a new release, attempts to hack, and renders the underlying software unusable (read unfit for use) he would then be at a disadvantage if he wished to distribute unusable (read unfit for use) software.In addition, the unusable (read unfit for use) result would occur upon every subsequent hack attempt unless the hacker wished to re-engineer the underlying software. Something they are incapable of doing :( Again, this would have no effect on Legitimate Users since they do not attempt to hack their own software. :(

[N400QW 205]

Unfortunately-yes. Let's hope the other aspects of our conversation don't come to fruition.

Agreed! :(

[Paladin 101]

When I went to re download found that my link had expired...I remain orbxless a year and half later.

Try logging in to your FlightSim Store Account, then review your orders. Select appropriate order, view it and this will provide a link which will surely work, as mine show 100 downloads available [which never expires] minus the number of downloads that have already been used. It has been like this for a long while. First time I have responded [over here] to one of the "omnipotent" ones :( and hope that a GOF has helped. I'm surprised that you have remained "Orbx-less" for such a long time. It's much too good a product to do without, even if it isn't "home territory". :( Maurice.

[Guest j0nx]

This thread is about half retarded. (1) Yeah piracy sucks but it is part of the world and one would think that it was accounted for in the price of the product. (2) you don't cut your nose off to spite your face which is what orbx did when they closed their forums and support to their LEGITIMATE customers to make a stand against their illegitimate customers. I've seen some cry baby, half-baked antics in my day but this one takes the cake. These guys are THE most talented individuals in the business imo and I feel their pain but they have got to either come to grips with the piracy issue or close their doors and go back to a day job at an office building working 9-5 like the rest of us.Now...when are they going to start putting some of that immense talent of theirs into making USA addon products??!! Australia is nice and all but I sure would love to see some American airports and scenery.

[WarpD 824]

Wow... the mind-set of people really stuns me.It seems that no matter what developers do, they're wrong.

[Guest ArtieLange]

Can't afford FS addons? Change hobbies. Enough said.

I tell you this fact: We are not making an profit. We have debts to pay. We have 20+ people on various forms of contract and payroll. It costs a lot of money to run this small company.

Change businesses, enough said.

[Geofa 108]

Change businesses, enough said.

I already talked to a major fs developer in Oshkosh who is doing exactly that. Is this really what flight simmers want?

Try logging in to your FlightSim Store Account, then review your orders. Select appropriate order, view it and this will provide a link which will surely work, as mine show 100 downloads available [which never expires] minus the number of downloads that have already been used. It has been like this for a long while. First time I have responded [over here] to one of the "omnipotent" ones :( and hope that a GOF has helped. I'm surprised that you have remained "Orbx-less" for such a long time. It's much too good a product to do without, even if it isn't "home territory". :( Maurice.

Thanks for letting me know-I hadn't checked in a year and a half and that was not the case then.

[Guest Mesa]

I already talked to a major fs developer in Oshkosh who is doing exactly that. Is this really what flight simmers want?

That obviously depends on who the developer is and what business they are changing into. Businesses/Jobs/Wives come and go - that's a part of life. If a business isn't strong enough or of a sound financial footing then it will fail. That's part of capitalism. A really good business providing quality products will always sell enough products to survive regardless of piracy. This is such a small hobby it always amazes me that there are as many developers as there are, especially so when some say it's their only source of income. I still find that suprising. Sometimes I wish we could go back to the good old days when there was only freeware and it wasn't all about making money. Some of it was as good as the best payware today.(Relatively speaking of course!)

[rightseater 0]

What difference would you being "modded up" make to the discussion?

Great question, but perhaps you failed to notice who and what I was responding too. As a moderator (thanks Tom, Geof, Staggerwing, others) I'm not prepared to tolerate the personal insults. The effect on this thread would be one less contributor.

[gman! 1]

Piracy is wrong, and I think its very prominent in the Flight Sim community. I think we need to spread the word about not condoning piracy because people work hard to put out these products so they can make our Flight Sim experience better. It's not like they don't pay to make their products, they have to buy developing software, licenses, maybe they even have to rent a plane our buy tickets for their whole developing team so they can do research. When you run a business and you pay your clients but do not get any income, it hurts the business and makes it very hard to run, because with little money how are you going to pay your workers, or even yourself? People need to realize that it is not always about the customer, yes there should be support, but think about. How many companies have 24/7 support? (Don't come up with some smart answer). Does a day without any help really hurt? They are humans too remember that, they are not some kind of working machine. Today people need to learn patience because without any patience you will not really get anywhere in life. Pirates need to be patient and save money, because in the end, when you support a company it feels good, and you get all the benefits of being a genuine customer.Wake up people, get off your asses and do something and make money. I do not have a job but I fix computers, setup stereo systems, connect TVs, etc. and that's how I make money, to buy things. You can not have everything handed to you in life. Stop the pirating and things will get better, and who knows, maybe the products will be cheaper!I also want to say this, for people that think developers of freeware and maybe even some payware use pirated products like Adobe Photoshop or something else, there are many freeware alternatives out there to make a simple repaint or make scenery. Last time I checked Gmax is free, there is also GIMP as a great alternative to photoshop and many more... There is no way to stop piracy, but in this situation it's ridiculous especially for something from a small community. Is FS as popular as most other games? Nope, then I don't see how someone could possibly upload products 1 day after its release, and how could the uploader think he is going to get donations if the people won't even pay for a small add-on in the first place. If he wanted to upgrade his PC, then he should have thought twice about buying a product and instead save it for his new parts. My god some people are just so stupid these days.

[Guest j0nx]

Complaining about piracy on here is akin to preaching to the choir. None of us on this forum, or a very small percentage at least would ever pirate software. The pirates are the same little kids that spawn in on the runways on a vatsim controlled online session, not the avsim forum members and contributors.