Actually, I do know what I'm talking about, however, I'm not going to argue the point. I've seen pilots who fly for airlines, including myself, comment concerning discrepencies about some of the better pay-ware a/c, and invariably, some simmer comes on crying saying "it flies just like the real airplane". I've seen simmers argue techniques with pilots who actually fly the real airplane. MSFS doesn't even model CG correctly in its basic code. But if you have fun with FS, and I do, and if you believe its real, which I know otherwise, then have fun. :( db.

You imply that I don't know much about flying. While I don't have my PPL yet (will start after college), I've been up in a number of GA's and have expereinced flying them, along with reading everything I can on the topic. If kept in fairly normal flying envelope, many add-on planes perform very close to real life. Maybe you're comparing landings of 'all your airline pilot friends' with normal GA landings...very different...I advise you to read up on it. And no one here is aruging that FS is 'real'... :(

I haven't been able to sound the stall warning in any of my landings with the default 172. I am currently taking the lessons. (ha! I figured after six years in this hobby it was about time I learned how to fly the darn thing! :)But I can't get that horn to blow. Do you think if I replace the 172 with a better model, like a payware 172, I would get better results?Clutch

I've tried it in many payware GA's and it just doesn't work as it should. IRL the stall horn comes on a few knots before the stall (not sure exactly when, I'm sure it varies), but as someone actually mentioned, in FS the horn sounds right when you end up entering the stall, that would be quite a rough landing from 10 feet up.

Actually, I do know what I'm talking about, however, I'm not going to argue the point. I've seen pilots who fly for airlines, including myself, comment concerning discrepencies about some of the better pay-ware a/c, and invariably, some simmer comes on crying saying "it flies just like the real airplane". I've seen simmers argue techniques with pilots who actually fly the real airplane. MSFS doesn't even model CG correctly in its basic code. But if you have fun with FS, and I do, and if you believe its real, which I know otherwise, then have fun. :(

I do fly and own a GA aircraft, which is much higher on the performance scale than standard Cessnas & Pipers; so it's not exactly as if I'm just a simmer with an opinion. Personally, I've been a fan of the payware RealAir SF260 for quite a few years. But then I've flown that one in real life too...L.Adamson

There are too many points to add to the discussion so I will start with saying, I enjoy the information exchange here. Apparently there are a lot of folks who do this stuff for real and I found a bit of benefit to using FS98 even though it was terribly modeled for what I was doing in real aircraft at the time, I could at least work on timing holding patterns, intercepting fixes and various non-precision approaches that I was being graded on. I knew it was a terrible model for the plane I was flying, the instrument panel was way off, but it was the whole idea of training at home, rehearsing, chair-flying and keeping the IP off your your case in the morning. Again, you learn what the limitations are in the program and take it for what it's worth or try to tweak the things that can be modified. I played around with the default 172 after reading the first couple of posts and what I got was on most of my attempts to stall the warning horn buzzed at full flaps and at the end of the green arc around 50 kts. I've never touch down in that configuration at that speed in real life. I just wanted to play around. I will try some of my payware singles like the A36 Bonanza.As far as the comment about nose wheel wobble is concerned. I've never experienced it, don't want to experience it, but the mental image had me laughing so hard, I almost went into pilot-induced oscillations (PIO).

You are totally wrong. EVERY GA flight instructor will command that you hold the aircraft off of the runway until the stall horn sounds before putting the main gear down.

Umm...What? I don't know how it works in Cessna's, but it's not that way in every GA airplane. And as such, not every flight instructor will tell you to.I rarely hear them in the Pipers I fly. I hear it a lot more in the PA18 I fly, but even then, not every time. And I've made many, many excellent landings without ever hearing the stall horn.

Umm...What? I don't know how it works in Cessna's, but it's not that way in every GA airplane. And as such, not every flight instructor will tell you to.I rarely hear them in the Pipers I fly. I hear it a lot more in the PA18 I fly, but even then, not every time. And I've made many, many excellent landings without ever hearing the stall horn.

Yeah same here. I get the stall horn maybe 20% of the time (in real life flying 172s and pipers/archers); but the landing is smooth and soft even without :) Every plane is different, and i'm more concerned about trusting the instruments and the view outside the window then "if the stall horn doesn't go off, i better not touch down." I do like to sometimes hold the stall horn as long as possible w/out touching down....just for fun (if there's no traffic behind me that is). FS9 does a pretty decent modeling of flight characteristics. However, you can definitely tell that it's based on numbers rather than physics. I hope the next version of Flightsim will be more physics based...then the real fun will start!-feng

Umm...What? I don't know how it works in Cessna's, but it's not that way in every GA airplane. And as such, not every flight instructor will tell you to.I rarely hear them in the Pipers I fly. I hear it a lot more in the PA18 I fly, but even then, not every time. And I've made many, many excellent landings without ever hearing the stall horn.

People should always know by now that every time they post a message on a board, they should never use the words never, every, and always.

FS9 does a pretty decent modeling of flight characteristics. However, you can definitely tell that it's based on numbers rather than physics. I hope the next version of Flightsim will be more physics based...then the real fun will start!

X-Plane is suppose to be a physics based model, yet it seldom provides ques such as dampening and intertia. For those, I much prefer MSFS. And BTW, the ground effect in X-Plane is number based. Just a percentage of the wing area.L.Adamson

In real flying, I was always instructed you want to stall the airplane (172SP) just a couple feet above the runway. This assures you have the slowest groundspeed when you touchdown. Yes, you can have a lot of great landings where the horn never goes off, but unless it's windy I hear the horn blaring right before the wheels touch.The default FS9 172 does have a stall horn, to answer someones question. I recently updated to the Flight1 172 and it does handle more realistic. But if you're not hearing the horn at all, it's most likely your technique.

People should always know by now that every time they post a message on a board, they should never use the words never, every, and always.

You just did! :( Anyway, exactly what I was thinking. In order to avoid looking silly, I would refrain from making absolute statements like "a GA plane is ALWAYS touched down with the horn going off and EVERY instructor will tell you so". Well, they aren't, and they won't.A landing with the horn going off can be fine, depending on the situation. The advantage you gain is minimum groundspeed. What that does to the ground roll anyone here can figure out.A landing without the horn going off (higher speed) can also be perfectly fine. There could be plenty of runway available, maybe a crosswind or a no-flap landing. The plane still be landed "by the numbers" and perfectly safely and acceptably by all standards.

The only thing missing from this most enjoyable "debate", is sitting round a table with a beer. Keep cool guys. Oh and the real life pilots are right !!!

You just did! :( Anyway, exactly what I was thinking. In order to avoid looking silly, I would refrain from making absolute statements like "a GA plane is ALWAYS touched down with the horn going off and EVERY instructor will tell you so". Well, they aren't, and they won't.A landing with the horn going off can be fine, depending on the situation. The advantage you gain is minimum groundspeed. What that does to the ground roll anyone here can figure out.A landing without the horn going off (higher speed) can also be perfectly fine. There could be plenty of runway available, maybe a crosswind or a no-flap landing. The plane still be landed "by the numbers" and perfectly safely and acceptably by all standards.

You know, there is an old saying; You can lead a horse to water, but sometimes he doesn't like beer so you've got to give him soda.Those of us here who are real pilots have already given you the answer. The OP was attempting to replicate what he saw his friends do, which was to CORRECTLY perform a standard landing in a Cessna with the stall horn on each and every time (each = always, every). We're not talking about a non-standard landing, a belly landing, a landing with Godzilla standing at the opposite end of the runway or a landing to drop a Kilo of cocaine to armed rebels on a 500 ft beach strip in Columbia. A STANDARD LANDING. And mind you a standard landing is any landing performed within the tolerances of the aircraft, yes that means you don't panic and do something different just because there's a cross wind or, or its raining, or its dark, or you have a 10,000 foot runway, or you vomited in your lap, or you have a raging case of jock itch, or your hot girlfriend is waiting for you at the FBO. Approach by the numbers, pull throttle to idle when coming over the fence, aim for the numbers, smoothly pull back on yoke to flare but not gain altitude, hold it, hold it, <BZZZZZZ stall horn>, gently release pressure, main gear touch down, hold back pressure on the yoke, let nose wheel settle and keep back pressure on yoke to keep weight off nose wheel until you are at taxing speed (taxiing speed by the way is "a brisk walk"). There is no debate here. You don't have to take the word from anonymous forum members. Simply go down to your local GA airport, take an intro flight, and the ask the flight instructor why he made you hold the aircraft above the runway until the onset of the stall horn. EVERY flight instructor will tell you so. They CAN and they DO.Take the advice of those who know, or don't, its a free country and its your check ride to FAIL.

You just did! :( Anyway, exactly what I was thinking. In order to avoid looking silly, I would refrain from making absolute statements like "a GA plane is ALWAYS touched down with the horn going off and EVERY instructor will tell you so". Well, they aren't, and they won't.A landing with the horn going off can be fine, depending on the situation. The advantage you gain is minimum groundspeed. What that does to the ground roll anyone here can figure out.A landing without the horn going off (higher speed) can also be perfectly fine. There could be plenty of runway available, maybe a crosswind or a no-flap landing. The plane still be landed "by the numbers" and perfectly safely and acceptably by all standards.

I also used "every" and "never" as well! I made sure I used all three of them in that sentence.Touching down with the stall horn may not happen every time in the planes that it is appropriate to do so in, but it is something that can be strived for even though you may get perfectly complimentable landings without it. That is the main thing about the horn, it's just something to strive for. It wasn't until I was an instructor before I realized one day that I was able to land the plane at will with or without the horn as I choose. It's just a matter of practice.As an instructor, the main goal of telling the students to try and land with the horn was to get them into the mindset of wanting to hold the plane off the ground for it to settle down by itself so that when the wheels touched, the plane was done flying. That was the goal. And most students rarely were able to hold it off that long, and really, it is not necessary to really land with the horn, but it at least got them to try and land as close to stall as they could.

....Take the advice of those who know, or don't, its a free country and its your check ride to FAIL....

Not just Cessna's, but landings with the stall horn blaring were also standard practice while I was training in the LSA Allegro. With one exception, I've never seen an instructor do otherwise. Not even sure how this discussion got started, what is the flying experience of the person who originally said he wouldn't fly with someone who landed this way? Weight shift is fun, because you land while gradually putting the bar out. The second you touch down, you pull the bar in to your stomach, it effectively kills lift and adds a ton of drag. It's been rare for me to ever use brakes when I fly weight shift--a 20-22 kt touchdown speed combined with the practice I mention above slows a trike down in a hurry. Crosswinds are handled the same way as with an Ercoupe--you come in crabbed and remember to keep the upwind wing low while taxiing. Taildraggers can be a bit different--I've flown in a Luscombe once, and we did a wheel landing vs. a three pointer, so you aren't quite at stall at touchdown in that type of scenario. I have a video of the Luscombe landing--it was done over some tall trees at a grass field in PA. We came in over the trees and did what the pilot described as an "Alley oop" to get to the runway--a dive followed by leveling off for the wheel landing. One of these days I will post the video on youtube, it was quite fun.Since switching to a better yoke I've gotten to the point where most of my sim landings have the stall warning going off at touchdown.-John

Every plane is different, and i'm more concerned about trusting the instruments and the view outside the window then "if the stall horn doesn't go off, i better not touch down." I do like to sometimes hold the stall horn as long as possible w/out touching down....just for fun (if there's no traffic behind me that is).

Same. I prefer to go by seat of the pants. Not to say waiting for the horn is a bad thing. I just know that where I learned to fly, they didn't teach you to listen for the horn, but to go by feel.

Same. I prefer to go by seat of the pants. Not to say waiting for the horn is a bad thing. I just know that where I learned to fly, they didn't teach you to listen for the horn, but to go by feel.

The horn is not some type of indication you have to listen for or that you have to wait for or can't land without it. All it is, is just a small indication that you've done things right. If your "feel" is good, then you'll hear it, if not, then you won't. That's all that it means.