Two like aircraft (let's say C172s) are near an airport with intent to land; the first is downwind and the other on a long, straight-in approach.Both are operating just fine. At the point in time when the 172 is about to turn base, the approaching aircraft is straight out, at the same distance to "pattern final" as the 172 turning base, and at the same altitude.Who has the right of way?

Who has the right of way?

Your scenario is interesting. I can't answer, because I only fly a computer. It will be interesting what the real pilots think.But if I might offer a couple of thoughts? I recall reading or seeing comments about the long, straight in approaches and the rise in incidents related to them. The pattern process is setup to allow an arriving pilot the ability to judge landing suitability, ie other pattern traffic, field traffic. So the pilot set for the long straight in approach takes away the ability to judge certain elements and places them self at a greater risk level, IMO.Since you don't mention tower interaction, this must be an uncontrolled field? I could only control my actions as a pilot and when ever there is a doubt, the other plane will be granted the right of way. Even if they don't "deserve" it. So I would extend the downwind leg or vector off to fly the pattern again. Being 500, 700 feet up is no place to be having a disagreement with another pilot.

Uncontrolled is correct.

Uncontrolled is correct.

Here is a great article on all aspects of uncontrolled operations with answers to your question:http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/sa08.pdf

It will depend on the direction the one that is flying a circuit is doing that circuit in. It's common practice for the aircraft which has the other aircraft on its right to give way. Therefore, if the one in a circuit is making left hand turns, he will have the aircraft doing a straight in on his right, and should give way, but if the circuit is being flown with right hand turns, then the situation is reversed.In practice however, it is more prudent to simply take avoiding action for either aircraft and maintain a visual until the apparent order in which the aircraft can land is clear to both pilots, either by position or radio contact, since arguing that you had right of way is something of a moot point if you are dead.Al

Good question;)And I don

On my FIRST SOLO, I had this situation to deal with.Making left traffic off, I was making my turn onto the downwind leg when I heard the "Westerly traffic, Piper blah blah blah inbound for landing, straight-in, Runway 7 Westerly"...I called out, repeated my position on the downwind, and asked the other pilot to let me know where he was.He obliged, and shortly thereafter I had him visually. Almost the SAME exact scenario you described... I could have cut the corner, gone downwind to base to final and beat him to the runway safely, but I was (and am still) no where near skilled enough to do that. Being that it was my first solo, I deferred - rather than feel pressured to do that perfectly, I just extended downwind, turned base when I he was abeam my wing, and he was practically parked by the time I hit the runway.-Greg(Not a bad landing for me, either.... a touch of a bounce, but for my first one all by my self, not too shabby!) (man, I have to get the cash together to start lessons again...)

It will depend on the direction the one that is flying a circuit is doing that circuit in. It's common practice for the aircraft which has the other aircraft on its right to give way. Therefore, if the one in a circuit is making left hand turns, he will have the aircraft doing a straight in on his right, and should give way, but if the circuit is being flown with right hand turns, then the situation is reversed.In practice however, it is more prudent to simply take avoiding action for either aircraft and maintain a visual until the apparent order in which the aircraft can land is clear to both pilots, either by position or radio contact, since arguing that you had right of way is something of a moot point if you are dead.Al

While the general riule is that an aircraft which has another aircraft on it right shall give way, different rules apply in the vicinity of an aerodrome in the UK accoprding to CAP 393: Air Navigation: The Order and the Regulations.SECTION 4 GENERAL FLIGHT RULESOrder of landing

13(1) An aircraft landing or on its final approach to land shall have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or on the ground or water.

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?cati...tail&id=226

Interesting scenario at uncontrolled field. My instuctor drilled that you fly the VFR pattern entry even when no traffic is present.He was not a fan of straight in for students...more do it by the book and have constant situational awareness.He also promoted see and avoid any situation which compromises flight safety. :(

Sure is an interesting scenario.If I understand correctly, you are on your downwind leg ready to turn base and have in view another aircraft an equal distance from your collision point on final at an uncontrolled airport. If it is an uncontrolled airport, I would assume that you are in a left hand pattern. However, regardless of whether it is a left or right downwind and who legally has the right of way, as an old CFI from long past my instruction would be to extend your downwind until adjacent to the other aircraft before turning base.You bring to mind another scenario from many years past that I will bet is still on all FAA written ticket examinations and many miss (including me on two out of three different type tests). It has been a long time and I may have forgotten a detail or two, but think I still remember what was important and you will see the point. On both the private and commercial examinations, the situation and location was described on a sectional chart (not totally written), so you had to study the chart a little bit at least. The scenario went something like this: Over somewhere like the Denver area, you were flying on a heading of 270 degrees at an altitude of 6,500 MLS under VFR conditions. You sight another aircraft flying to your left on a heading of 10 degrees at the same altitude. The multiple choice answers were:a. You are at the correct altitude, the other aircraft is at an incorrect altitude and you have the right of wayb. You are at an incorrect altiude, the other aircraft is at the correct altitude, and has the right of way.c. You are at the correct altitude, the other aircraft is at an incorrect altitude, and has the right of wayd. Both aircraft are at a correct altitude and you have the right of way.I passed everything with a reasonable grade, but on both the Private and Commercial tests I missed this question. I answered "a" which I will bet the vast majority do in error.I am sure this scenario is put on the test to really make you think, which I failed to do. The catch was to hopefully get one to carefully study the sectional and observe AGL, (how high was the terrain). Being near Denver, I was actually flying somewhere between 2,000 and 2,500 AGL at 6,500 MSL. Being an old Gulf Coast boy with little thought of mountains, I jumped on the VFR proper heading assignments (Odd Easterly, Even Westerly) above 3,000 MSL (Like I bet a lot of other people did). Below 3,000 AGL (which both of us were) this regulation does not come into play.When I took the written exam for my CFI, the question was totally written (No sectional chart). Thus, I was not required to to take notice of ground elevation on the sectional. It was called to my attention by the written description in the scenario. I then realized I had missed this one on the private and commercial exams. The proper answer is "d".Happy flying:RTH

While the general riule is that an aircraft which has another aircraft on it right shall give way, different rules apply in the vicinity of an aerodrome in the UK accoprding to CAP 393: Air Navigation: The Order and the Regulations.

That's certainly true, but it then raises the question, which one is landing? Are they both landing? or is the aircraft that is on the long final really landing, or just doing a fly by, or whatever. With no way to be absolutely sure, whenever there is a doubt like that, I'd take the prudent choice and get out of the way, which is why I mentioned that wasn't a bad idea, unlike long straight in approaches to uncontrolled airfields, which probably are a bad idea.Funnily enough, I've actually been in that situation a few times, and a lot worse too, including with aircraft landing downwind directly toward me on more than one occasion, and I take the view that if they are dumb enough to do that, then I should be smart enough to ignore my right of way and let the dumbasses land, although I did actually once land in between two gliders that were coming in downwind, with me coming in into the wind (also in a glider). In that situation, there is no throttle you can open up, so what I did was, put my nose down and rock my wings a few times to make myself more visible, since most gliders have red wingtips that can be seen from quite a way off. There was room to for all three of us to get down fortunately, but that kind of thing certainly makes you sit up a bit in the seat!Al

Hi all, Great discussion here.Both aircraft have announced intent to land. Did a quick illustration here just for clarity.

Officially (For the FAA)Whoever is lower in altitude - That airplane has the right of way.That said, I've never met a pilot who wasn't okay with "Yielding" to another pilot. Nor have I ever hesitated to "Yield" to another airplane that was in a similar position to land. CTAF is there for a Reason. In the event of no radio communications the above applies.Lets say I was on Base, he was on a straight in.It's as easy as saying "To the Cherokee on final, we're downwind and we're going to extend that a bit to come in behind you"Followed by a "Hey Thanks"Followed by a "No Worries"As Redneck and "Improvised" as it sounds, that's pretty much all it takes. There's no room for a "Battle of witts" in Aviation. It's just not worth anyone's time.

Officially (For the FAA)Whoever is lower in altitude - That airplane has the right of way.That said, I've never met a pilot who wasn't okay with "Yielding" to another pilot. Nor have I ever hesitated to "Yield" to another airplane that was in a similar position to land. CTAF is there for a Reason. In the event of no radio communications the above applies.Lets say I was on Base, he was on a straight in.It's as easy as saying "To the Cherokee on final, we're downwind and we're going to extend that a bit to come in behind you"Followed by a "Hey Thanks"Followed by a "No Worries"As Redneck and "Improvised" as it sounds, that's pretty much all it takes. There's no room for a "Battle of witts" in Aviation. It's just not worth anyone's time.

Yep..

I've never met one. Never said they don't exist :).