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dragon09

FS2004 - Performance as airports are approached - more observations

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One of the bits of advice I've been giving related to FS2004--stay away from the larger, detailed cities and airports if you have a slower system.But looking at some of the threads related to performance, I feel it important to note that I've seen performance suffer as I approach even minor airports. Luckily, I don't see pauses. But performance falls off even if I set the scenery density (and thus airport complexity) lower than that in FS2002.Not to be defeated, I tried an experiment--I aliased all my FS2002 airports into FS2004 and excluded the FS2004 airports. Stands to reason performance near airports would improve given FS2002's detail? Nope... Turning final into KAPC (Napa) under clear skies, I've seen a 25-30 pct falloff in fps to the point where it can get fairly annoying, as soon as I'm "in range". Never happened in FS2002.Ironically, the two things I did for FS2004--adding more RAM and picking a GeF 4200 to replace my dead GeF/2, have had a great effect in FS2002. For fidelity on final and practicing pattern drill, I've had to revert back to FS2002. For cross country sightseeing, FS2004 all the way. Once an airport is out of view, I almost always exceed 20fps--really the cutoff for smoothness I think.My one working theory on this--perhaps it is possible that FS2004 displays objects (or attempts to) even when one is far out--really at a further distance than FS2002. I have a slow system, so my results I expected, but I always thought it'd be the clouds that hurt my performance. With Chris's updates, it takes some really thick cloud layers to hurt performance now. But flying in the vicinity of an airport can really choke things.But again, I thank my lucky stars that I at least get no pauses :) I am also glad both sims coexist--I can choose the sim according to what I feel like doing.-John

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BINGO! Ok, John I know I have mentioned this in one or two of my posts as well, I am just about 100% postive there is something going on in this regard. I see exactly the same thing, I dont get the pauses, just an annoying frame rate drop or momentary stutter. I am wondering if there is anything that can be done about it. I mean we have to go land!!! It even happens at very small airports with just a few buildings. I wonder if it has to do with draw distance for the airport objects? Kind of like the impact you get with add-on sceneries once the buildings become visible. My frame rate problems only come into play around urban ares and those with airports especially. Agreed on having both sims for a variety of reasons!Hornit

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hi John and Hornit,i'm getting the same performance as well. as you all said even at the small (not so detailed arpts.) really annoying. happy flyin, fmp4 3.09700 pro1 gig pc1066 rdramwinxp sp1

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What's interesting is we share a variety of systems and O/S's.... Also, many of the ppl who haven't noted this issue may be keeping their framerate lock lower--it's really hard to benchmark something like this amongst a group of such different simming tastes.-John

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Two things I've seen repeated in regards to this problem are 1) the sound acceleration and 2) the autogen.I keep my autogen at normal or dense and don't have the problem you describe. Of course, there are so many different combinations of sliders, etc tha YMMV.xp2700+A7N8X/333fsb1G pc2700 corsair ddrGeForce4 ti4600/128Onboard NVidia Nforce soundXP Provgb

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Any of you guys try the new airport textures located in the file library. Apparently, they are less graphic intensive. May help?Haven't tried yet.Todd

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Well, that certainly explains the 10 minute final approach I had into Shez's Cleveland scenery using FS9. Guess I'll have to go back to the default KCLE. x(

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Hi John,Well, here is another vote for seeing the same thing. Running a PIII, 933, 512 ram, Win98se, Geforce2 GTS, 64mb with 44.03 drivers. Frames locked at 20. Averaging about 15 on the ground. al landings have been at what I would call "smaller" airports. Shreveport, Gulfport. Using the KA350.Just prior to touchdown, usually when crossing the threshold, I get one or two pauses (stutters) that last no more than a second, usually less. Frames seem to drop quickly to single digits. As soon as the gear is on the runway, stutters stop, frames jump back to normal.Have setup per all the tips found in the forum on different posts and in the Tips post at the top (thanks folks for those). Funny thing, on takeoff, the same thing does not happen. Sure would like to know how to cure it. Regards,Paul

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I still get the little jump on final and out at about 5-6 miles even with the new low res textures. I am using lo-res textures for the autogen too, that seems to have helped a bit. Also my autogen is set on dense and my scenery complexity is also. Im backing off the mesh little by little and its helping while not much of a visual impact. Just for info here's what I have tweaked so far: Sliders not maxed, res 1280/32bit, 2XFSAA (yes! I can do it now!)2X aniso, -4LOD, mesh at 60% normal sliders otherwise, not maxing anything out. AI at 30%. Vis 20 miles, ac shadows on and reflections. I'm using low res textures for autogen, taxiways, runways, and Chris Willis' clouds. I am also using a start/high fs9.exe, but not sure if this is helping or not, so far I think it is giving me a bit more stable frames.HornitP4 @2.9ghz, 512mb DDR, GF4 Ti 4200 128mb, SB Live! Nothing running in background, all latest drivers(det 44.03) WIN98SE

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The thing that did it for me was setting autogen at sparse. :( For some reason though, I like it better. Todd

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A strange twist...Have been doing some testing in the sim the last few hours and stumbled upon something that has me shaking my head.My framerates (outside of the majors) stay very good, even during approach to smaller airports. Until now. Seems that as I approach a runway on a heading between approximately 22 to 29 I get a terrible slowdown. I have my rates locked at 20, and rarely see anything while flying less than 15 (this is with alot of clouds). But as soon as I hit final on a runway within the headings listed above, my frames sink to 8-12 with numerous stutters.So I started another test using the follwing parameters:Default 172No clouds and 40 mile visNoon local time (to take the sun out of the picture)I chose a number of airports in the No. Calif Central Valley where I do alot of my simming.KSCK 11/29C83 12/302Q3 16/34005 16/34041 18/36Q80 07/25Q53 18/36 and 09/27O88 07/25At KSCK I set up an approach to 29 and it was bad. Did a T&G to a short final to 11, and all was smooth. Flew over to C83 and shot two approaches from either end without problems (even with Mt. Diablo in the left side of the windscreen while on approach to 30). North to O88 and it bogged down on approach to 25. Another T&G to a short final to 07 and all was fine. Flew over to Q53 and made a smooth approach to 09. T&G to a short final for 27, and again low frames and stutters. Then made approaches to 18/36 at Q53 without problems. Over to Q80 for a smooth apoproach to 07, but an ugly one to 25. Then flew up north a few miles to shoot clean approaches to both ends of 2Q3, 005, 041.I'll try this again at night, but I doubt that I'll see a difference. I never saw this type of strange behavior with FS2K2. I should reiterate that FS9 runs very well on my system... I've had very few problems aside from the screen flicker of the ATI cards when pressing the ALT key.Sys specs:XP2400 @ 2600ASUS A7N8X Deluxe w/1004 BIOS and latest chipset driversATI 9700 Pro 350/330 and CAT 3.61 Gig Crucial PC2700 DDRMaxtor 40 Gig ATA 133 7200 RPM, FS on it's own partitionSony 52x24x52 CDRWIomega 100 Mb ZipTurtle BeachSony E400 19"DSL modem and 10/100 Ethernet cardLian-Li case w/ Antec 430W PSUWin XP Home DX 9.0bWonder what others might get trying this at small GA airports in various parts of the world?

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Could aircraft shadows make any difference in frame rate performance that low to the ground? Tony

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My problem doesn't seem to be with airports per se, but the larger cities. They really drag the fps down, with the JFK area being especially brutal. I don't really notice a hit at the smaller airports/cities, but I have my fps slider locked at 15, so that may be a factor. On the stutter issue, I seem to have the opposite occurence. I was getting very noticable stutters around AI and big airports in FS8, but that has disappeared in FS9. It's possible that the upgrade to XP and DX9 had something to do with it.Todd

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>as I approach a runway on a heading between approximately 22>to 29 I get a terrible slowdown. Don't have FS2004 yet but on the surface I would have to say the chance is 0.1% it has anything to do with magnetic heading. The issue maybe in scenery or position of the Sun, or something else but not in the runway heading alone. I would switch to different parts of the world, times of day or weather before being able to make any conclusion. It might be interesting investigation though ....Michael J.

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Michael...I've wondered if position of the sun might have a bit to do with it (btw--thanks to the others who've also responded. I wanted to note I see this issue with and without autogen, probably due to system speed).I've noticed the slowdown on approach from almost any direction when the sun is directly overhead. But I've also noticed it after the sun has gone down, yet it still isn't completely dark.And some airports are far worse than others. DFW--forget it. Even if I move all sliders left, DFW is a chokepoint on the system, and looks worse than FS2002. Detail isn't the only factor driving this issue.I'd still lay odds that the rendering engine may be trying to display buildings too far out. That this happens with FS2002 airports too is rather telling. Doesn't seem to be scenery detail related. If I could eliminate this one issue, I'd probably delete FS2002. I really haven't found any other things that make me want to fly 2k2.... I posted this link in the screenshots forum yesterday.... http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...5&mesg_id=74155 The second shot you see, with the Mirage over the East Bay, I was cranking out 25 fps. Ten minutes later on approach to Livermore, with autogen off, I ran into the same dropoff in fps, and my landing was to the East....Some simmers set their fps down to 15-20 and may never notice this, especially combined with a P4/2.x system or Athlon 2.x system. For me, I not only want a more fluid flight, but a more fluid response to the controls--which 15 fps doesn't offer.Frankly, I would have noticed this sooner, had I not been chasing down the best system settings for eye candy. Over the weekend, I had my first long session where all I did was short 20-30 minute hops. Landing was an issue, almost every time...-John

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