Hello !I would like to buy a joystick or yoke + rudder system but I'm unable to find specifications for these peripherals. I went to several manufacturers websites (CH Products, Saitek, Logitech), I have read many reviews, checked the "specifications" on several online shops, but it looks like people only care about the packaging of their peripherals, not about what's inside.I mean, when I buy a mouse, I'm able to get specifications and information about the technology inside: I know if it's a mechanical mouse with a ball and light sensors, if it's an optical mouse with a diode or a laser. I know the resolution of the mouse (often in dpi), and for a gamer mouse, I even can get specifications about the refresh rate and latency. Just check the specifications of a "Razer" mouse and reviews made by FPS gamers. They know exactly what they are using !Why I'm searching these specifications ? Because it's expensive, and in the past, I had a Saitek Cyborg 3D joystick. After 6 only months I had to change it because it began shaking around. This device was no more smooth and precise after only 6 months. In the calibration panel it was easy to see why the autopilot always disconnected. When the joystick was centered, the point was dancing around. In the end, I had to configure a giant null zone. All this is because inside this joystick you could find bad quality potentiometers.So what's inside a CH Products, a Saitek or Logitech system where the price with the rudder pedals is often more than 200 bucks ? How precise are the axes and how much different values can they return ? How long can they last. And where can I find specifications about the technology inside ? Are there good reviews on the web for these peripherals ?Thank you and best regards.

If you want quality parts (metal, heavy springs, etc.) then go for a Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar. I've had this joystick/throttle combo for almost 3 years now, and it's still solid as a rock (you can feel the difference...these are extremely heavy joysticks). I also use a cheaper Logitech 3D Extreme Pro for less hardcore games, and in less than a year, the twist rudder function is already failing....-feng

That actually is part of why I wish Razer would make flight sim equipment. Hopefully however with a better attention to form factor than their mouses. I once had a Lachesis mouse from them that when I would use it for more than an hour would cause my hand and sometimes my wrist to go numb. Once it broke and I got a Logitech G9 and put the bigger grip on it, all my problems went away involving that specific issue. I would like to see a company like Razer make decent flight controls, but it would be a requirement that they pay attention to making sure it can be used for extended durations without pain.As for why I suspect Razer and similar companies detail so much with their mice and keyboards, remember that this stuff is being used by pro gamers. Usually these mice are aimed at competitive gaming rather than standard use. Speaking as someone who had a bit of a history in competitive gaming (nothing for money however), you need every advantage you can get. That polling speed and the DPI can save you big time in RTS matches where you wind up having an entire match go by in less than 10 minutes on usual situations.Just to illustrate how fast paced some of these games get:

And on a more "Olympic"* level

This is why they are showing so much in that equipment. They are targeting people who play video games competitively for a living. And for the record, if you try that kind of gaming with a standard optical or ball mouse, you aren't going to get past the qualifier, it would be like taking a Pinto to a Formula 1 race.* This is a clip from the World Cyber Games, which is the video game equivalent of the Olympics.

... CH Products ... How precise are the axes and how much different values can they return ? How long can they last.

i've had CHyoke 'USB' for about 10 years. had the CHpedals for just over nine years. never had a problem with either unit.by 'axis values' do you mean how fine is the detail across the range of movement? i've never had issue with too little sensitivity. when used with FS8 the devices were a bit too sensitive. with FS9 and FSX i've not had issues.most of my flights are with addon commercial transport regional and mainline jets.my father has an older CHyoke must be over 11 years old and he has experienced no problems. most of his flights are in the default FS8 and FS9 baron and the PMDG 1900D (FS9).my only recomendation is DON'T use the CH drivers. use FS default calibration tools or FSUIPC.some CH reviews here -http://www.avsim.com/pages/0806/CH/CH.htmhttp://www.flightsim.com/main/review/chproduc.htm--

This is all ironic, I have a 3000 dollar Cirrus 2 from Precision Flight Controls, And the potentiometers are absolutely garbage !

Thank you all for your replies !Yes I would like to know how fine the detail is across the range of movement. I would even like to know the refresh rate of the positions of all the axes on the USB port.Today I'm using a Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2. The one without force feedback. When I replaced my Saitek Cybord 3D, that's the one I bought and it's a reliable joystick. It's working exactly like the 1st day. I bought it during the begining of the century. Perfect for liners or general aviation. It's a digital/optical tracking mechanism inside. I'm using it every day, but if you like aerobatics, I think this device is too slow: like a mouse from the previous century. In the future I'd also like rudder pedals on the floor for the yaw.Yes it would be awesome to see Razer manufacturing devices for flight simmers... I'm using their Copperhead mouse and it's the perfect pointing device for me.

This is all ironic, I have a 3000 dollar Cirrus 2 from Precision Flight Controls, And the potentiometers are absolutely garbage !

:( There's a lifetime waranty on their system. But even then, I think it's important to know what's inside.And for a system you connect to your computer, it's not only important to know the technology that captures the movement but also how fast it's transmitted to the USB interface.I received a nice answer from CH Products (France). It's the first time they got such questions but CH Products don't publish these specifications. Very strange. Would you try to sell a CPU, a printer or a mouse by describing only the packaging and trying to hide the specifications ?No answer from Saitek for now...Happy flying ! :(

So far, noone has answer MdMax's question about what is inside the equipments!I have an old Microsoft joystick with the old gameport contact and I dismantle this to study the inside. And this joystick was free from potentiometers and have hallelement instead. My current joystick is also Microsoft Sidwinder Force feed back and this hall elements as well. I found this type of joystick extreamly good.Now I would lika a throtthle quadrant. But as MdMax I cant find an inside description. But what I understand from forums and friends the cheaper one's from Saitek and CH-products have potentiometers and limited time for work. So I decied to build my own throttle quadrant. I'm using the BU0836X usb controller from http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836X/ and build my handle around cheap ball bearing and plywood. I have made one prototype and it works well.

:( On the AVSIM Store: "mechanical trim wheel for physical potentiometer centering only"http://www.simpilot.com/servlet/the-38/CH-...Sim-Yoke/Detailhttp://www.chproducts.com/retail/y_fsyusb.htmlNow, why does it cost $108 if it's only plastic with 5 potentiometers and buttons ? It even makes noise ! I would not pay 50 bucks for a yoke with "an annoyance", but I would be ready to pay $200 or more for a high quality yoke. Problem is: it's a small market with no real competition. It looks like we're still in the 80's. Is the Saitek device better with the "Durable Stainless Steel shaft with precision bearings" ? Why don't they talk about their sensors ? Is it crap ?Just look at the Track IR 5 page... they explain the technology inside, the resolution of their sensor, and they're also giving the response time. That helps to understand how it works and why you're paying for it.Thank you Jonny for your link... "do it yourself" may be the best solution.

I have one of those BU0836X controllers, and am currently making a throttle quadrant which will use that as the magic inside it. That little circuit board is a fantastic thing and a godsend to cockpit builders. Good service from them too, mine came within two days of me ordering it.You plug the thing in and your PC picks it up straight away, no problem, no drivers needed, it just detects it straight away and it works like a charm. And if you can't make a decent controller with all this button capability......then you're never going to. Thoroughly recommended.Al

Would you try to sell a CPU, a printer or a mouse by describing only the packaging and trying to hide the specifications ?

i recently saw a computer sold as, paraphrasing, having 'over 12GHz of power!' ... followed in small print by quad core at 3GHz each.most manufactuers don't wish to share 'inside details'. a even greater number of customers have no idea what the details mean.PS: if a 12GHz chip is ever released i would begin using FSX!! --

I have an older gameport version of the CH Yoke, Pedals, F-16 stick, Pro Throttle (fighter-style) and and older Mac FlightStick pro. The FlightStick Pro easily has the best feel... or, had... I'd buy another in a second.Pedals are fine.(Can anyone use gameport controllers any more?)The yoke, however... well, mine developed a "stickyness" I was unable to overcome, caused by the off-center use of holding it.. ah.. off-center ;) I called CH and they made a few recommendations but none helped.I'd probably buy a newer one if I found out this had been addressed successfully.Andrew

... making a throttle quadrant ...

Hi, I am just curios if you are going to use hallelement to your throttle. And if so, how have you solved the magnetics?/Jonny

nope it has pots and switches, or at least the design has, since it's still fairly early on, although that could change.Al

Hello !I would like to buy a joystick or yoke + rudder system but I'm unable to find specifications for these peripherals. I went to several manufacturers websites (CH Products, Saitek, Logitech), I have read many reviews, checked the "specifications" on several online shops, but it looks like people only care about the packaging of their peripherals, not about what's inside.I mean, when I buy a mouse, I'm able to get specifications and information about the technology inside: I know if it's a mechanical mouse with a ball and light sensors, if it's an optical mouse with a diode or a laser. I know the resolution of the mouse (often in dpi), and for a gamer mouse, I even can get specifications about the refresh rate and latency. Just check the specifications of a "Razer" mouse and reviews made by FPS gamers. They know exactly what they are using !Thank you and best regards.

HelloLife is to short to worry about what is inside a yoke, just buy either the Saitek or the CH setups, fly the crap out of it, if it breaks a few years down the track then buy another.If you happen to buy CH then here is their spare parts page.http://www.chproducts.com/shop/parts.htmlBut I will doubt you will need it, I have a old gameport CH yolk that now lives in my garden shed which refuses to die, used it for at least ten years before I bought my Saitek stuff.

If you happen to buy CH then here is their spare parts page.http://www.chproducts.com/shop/parts.html

Thank you for this link ! At least this shows that they allow their customers to repair their yoke after the warranty. So it's not a disposable... it's a good sign.