A little Heads-Up on the NGX...

[MrGreen 0]

I also bought the Saitek Yoke recently. I guess i was bored with the CH yoke and wanted to see if it was more realistic, the CH yoke also were starting to lose buttons...Anyway after flying with it for a week i think i prefer it compared to the CH, although there are some "quirks" i still haven't gotten used to, one is the "hard" deadzones (ie they yoke really centers when left untouched, in both roll and pitch axis); this is both an advantage and a disadvantage for me. The advantage is that i can trim the airplane more reliably than with the CH yoke as when the yoke has no pressure on it, it will really be centered, the CH were annoying in that the springs were so weak in the middle that you could pull/push it about 1 centimeter without resistance. This obviously made it very hard to trim it at a certain pitch. The disadvantage is that it can be a bit sensitive on final approach where you want smooth adjustments, the "sticky" center can make you overcontrol (at least i do sometimes) But i guess it is more realistic that way, as you need to use the trim a lot more. With the CH yoke i rarely trimmed tbh.The second thing that is different is that teflon rod gets a bit sticky sometimes when you hold a the column for a while. This is again both good and bad, because the teflon rod is more sturdy and less toyish than the plastic one on the CH yoke, but as noted it has its disadvantages.The throttle is pretty much just awesome, it has a longer range of control than the integrated one on the CH yoke, so you can do smaller corrections, more buttons etc. Only downside for me is that when you move the throttles to idle they are semi-locked in to place (obviously to prevent you from going in to reverse), this can make it harder to synch the thrust if you use all three sticks as throttles, because when you want to increase thrust from idle you might have to use a little "too much" force to get out of the locked state and move the throttles out of synch.All in all though im satisfied and i'd recommend it for anyone wanting to upgrade from the CH, buy a new one, or are just curious to try something different.Im probably gonna use this Yoke until it breaks, but im just curious, what yoke would you guys say is the next step after CH/saitek?

[Efussander 0]

I also bought the Saitek Yoke recently. I guess i was bored with the CH yoke and wanted to see if it was more realistic, the CH yoke also were starting to lose buttons...Anyway after flying with it for a week i think i prefer it compared to the CH, although there are some "quirks" i still haven't gotten used to, one is the "hard" deadzones (ie they yoke really centers when left untouched, in both roll and pitch axis); this is both an advantage and a disadvantage for me. The advantage is that i can trim the airplane more reliably than with the CH yoke as when the yoke has no pressure on it, it will really be centered, the CH were annoying in that the springs were so weak in the middle that you could pull/push it about 1 centimeter without resistance. This obviously made it very hard to trim it at a certain pitch. The disadvantage is that it can be a bit sensitive on final approach where you want smooth adjustments, the "sticky" center can make you overcontrol (at least i do sometimes) But i guess it is more realistic that way, as you need to use the trim a lot more. With the CH yoke i rarely trimmed tbh.The second thing that is different is that teflon rod gets a bit sticky sometimes when you hold a the column for a while. This is again both good and bad, because the teflon rod is more sturdy and less toyish than the plastic one on the CH yoke, but as noted it has its disadvantages.The throttle is pretty much just awesome, it has a longer range of control than the integrated one on the CH yoke, so you can do smaller corrections, more buttons etc. Only downside for me is that when you move the throttles to idle they are semi-locked in to place (obviously to prevent you from going in to reverse), this can make it harder to synch the thrust if you use all three sticks as throttles, because when you want to increase thrust from idle you might have to use a little "too much" force to get out of the locked state and move the throttles out of synch.All in all though im satisfied and i'd recommend it for anyone wanting to upgrade from the CH, buy a new one, or are just curious to try something different.Im probably gonna use this Yoke until it breaks, but im just curious, what yoke would you guys say is the next step after CH/saitek?

Hmm, I've never had a problem with it being 'sticky'. Maybe you have some sort of defect in the unit. I might try some WD-40 or something. As for the next step, look at the full column yokes at Precision Flight Controls. (PFC)EDIT: flypfc.com is the site.

[Zachh 0]

Speaking of PMDG updates and staff quality of life during the holidays, I just had a thought... Im definately not a games industry expert, but seems to me that PMDGs policy of "done when its done" would go far to entice the best gaming / simulation programmers and software engineers out there...just look at mass market publishers like EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc...they practically eat their talent alive with deadlines and bottom lines. Many good development studios are out of work during the holidays because of this. While the developers under the thumb of these publishers may deliver a product to Walmart, Best Buy or Gamestop on-time everytime (almost everytime), its not always a polished product, and certainly not to the level of what we have come to expect from our favorite sim developer. So, a work environment where you are free to recruit and maximize your talent and creativity to bring a loyal support base the best product possibe almost necessitates a "done when it's done" reality. I imagine Robert has little trouble finding extremely skilled staff with that kind of work climate...what programmer wouldn't want to work in an environment where there is always time to add "one more good idea". I'm convinced this is why PMDG is so good - they have attracted and kept staff on the team by cutting out the pressures that have swallowed whole so many other developers out there. For that, I will take my time while they take theirs.Thanks for your dedication and work over the holidays PMDG (and that possible update this weekend!)

[Joel 10]

I don't mind just yet when it'll be done, I at least would like some more pictures. I mean come on!

[michal 44]

When I save up, I'd like to get the 737 yoke and pedals from PFC. They are much more realistic than the saitek versions, but also massively expensive.

They are massively more expensive that's for sure but are they really more realistic? I once tried a PFC yoke at one of the Avsim annual events and was very disappointed how it "felt" and I fly in real life so I was sort of hoping that for all this expense you get better feel than from competition. I even reminded myself "this is the yoke NOT to get". Well, you definitely get a very well engineered, very sturdy and heavy piece of metal alloy. It was years ago and maybe they changed something but I would be very careful about spending so much money on something that simply looks very impressive. Just my $0.02.

[FBC57 1]

They are massively more expensive that's for sure but are they really more realistic? I once tried a PFC yoke at one of the Avsim annual events and was very disappointed how it "felt" and I fly in real life so I was sort of hoping that for all this expense you get better feel than from competition. I even reminded myself "this is the yoke NOT to get". Well, you definitely get a very well engineered, very sturdy and heavy piece of metal alloy. It was years ago and maybe they changed something but I would be very careful about spending so much money on something that simply looks very impressive. Just my $0.02.

I bought one recently and while I'm not a pilot, I've flown quite a bit.I've also had hours in the real 737 sim and the PFC is the closest thing I've ever seen or used to the real thing.I'm sure I'm not on my own here. The quality of build, feel and sheer immersion of this product make it one of the best investments (apart from my most recent acquisition, a VRAircraft throttle quadrant) I've ever made for flight sim.Frank Cooper

[MrGreen 0]

Ethan, thanks for the site. I think i wont be buying a new Yoke in a long time lol, 1000 $ is a lot of money for a fs controller :PAbout the sticky joystick, i made it sound worse than it is i think. It is not that noticeable. It just "creaks" a bit, sometimes, when i haven't touched it for a while and then perform a turn, its mostly a sound rather than a resisting force or something like that. Anyway if i get too annoyed of it i can send it back and get a new one. (a deal with the vendor)

[crn 0]

Ethan, thanks for the site. I think i wont be buying a new Yoke in a long time lol, 1000 $ is a lot of money for a fs controller :PAbout the sticky joystick, i made it sound worse than it is i think. It is not that noticeable. It just "creaks" a bit, sometimes, when i haven't touched it for a while and then perform a turn, its mostly a sound rather than a resisting force or something like that. Anyway if i get too annoyed of it i can send it back and get a new one. (a deal with the vendor)

Hi Ethan,Unfortunately returning it won't solve the problem. They are all the same. There are lots of posts about it in the forums. I discovered this when my friend bought one. He finds it very difficult to control precisely in the pitch mode because it sticks. I did see a post by a German engineer that might be helpful. He said he pulled it apart and that there is a collar that the shaft goes through that binds and causes the problem. He split the collar so that the shaft moves freely. Of course, if you tried that mod and it went wrong you would be worse off than before.Clive Norman

[ESzczesniak 128]

Speaking of PMDG updates and staff quality of life during the holidays, I just had a thought... Im definately not a games industry expert, but seems to me that PMDGs policy of "done when its done" would go far to entice the best gaming / simulation programmers and software engineers out there...just look at mass market publishers like EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc...they practically eat their talent alive with deadlines and bottom lines. Many good development studios are out of work during the holidays because of this. While the developers under the thumb of these publishers may deliver a product to Walmart, Best Buy or Gamestop on-time everytime (almost everytime), its not always a polished product, and certainly not to the level of what we have come to expect from our favorite sim developer. So, a work environment where you are free to recruit and maximize your talent and creativity to bring a loyal support base the best product possibe almost necessitates a "done when it's done" reality. I imagine Robert has little trouble finding extremely skilled staff with that kind of work climate...what programmer wouldn't want to work in an environment where there is always time to add "one more good idea". I'm convinced this is why PMDG is so good - they have attracted and kept staff on the team by cutting out the pressures that have swallowed whole so many other developers out there. For that, I will take my time while they take theirs.Thanks for your dedication and work over the holidays PMDG (and that possible update this weekend!)

I'm skeptical that this would work for many in the mainstream gaming industry. Just look up the saga that became the release of Gran Turismo 5. This was THE GAME that many people bought PS3 for back at the consoles release anticipating the release of this game. Initially it was supposed to release almost 2.5 years ago and after bumbling deadlines, release dates, etc, finally just got out a few weeks ago. By the expectations of the game, it's been a pretty big flop. The vast majority of the USA (and perhaps other countries...I only can speak for the USA) do not have the patience to wait 3-4 years for a game.

[Farlis 2,317]

The vast majority of the USA (and perhaps other countries...I only can speak for the USA) do not have the patience to wait 3-4 years for a game.

Then perhaps developers should not disclose future development plans and announce new releases only at the time they go into beta and a gold status is expected in less than half a year.For example: Why did Bioware announce "Mass Effect 3" already? We know it's coming, but it's not to come out earlier than December 2011. What good does it do to set a date so early?

[Zachh 0]

I'm skeptical that this would work for many in the mainstream gaming industry. Just look up the saga that became the release of Gran Turismo 5. This was THE GAME that many people bought PS3 for back at the consoles release anticipating the release of this game. Initially it was supposed to release almost 2.5 years ago and after bumbling deadlines, release dates, etc, finally just got out a few weeks ago. By the expectations of the game, it's been a pretty big flop. The vast majority of the USA (and perhaps other countries...I only can speak for the USA) do not have the patience to wait 3-4 years for a game.

Agreed. I suppose I was mainly speaking in terms of the sim community...I think it can work for a niche product such as ours...alot of the patience comes down to the maturity of the target audience. While many of us are "older" simmers (I'm 29), it certainly takes a muture younger person to even appreciate what PMDG brings to the table...Im blown away that we have 14-15 year olds on this forum not only browsing, but also actively contributing great input to the discussion. Compare this maturity to much of the maturity found within the mass-market population the big publishers are trying to hit (just look at the forum threads on some of those console sites...). Definately not the same 14-15 year olds we see on this site (if language and lack of consideration are any indicator). The big publishers do bring some serious clout to the table in the way of marketing tools and resources though, I will give them that. I love my XBox 360, but I love my FSX more :( .

[Zachh 0]

Then perhaps developers should not disclose future development plans and announce new releases only at the time they go into beta and a gold status is expected in less than half a year.For example: Why did Bioware announce "Mass Effect 3" already? We know it's coming, but it's not to come out earlier than December 2011. What good does it do to set a date so early?

You got me on that one...I would (will) anxiously wait years for Mass Effect 3...and Forza 4, and Arkham City... EDIT: Uh oh, looks like I may have contradicted myself...maybe mainstream gamers are willing to wait years for a release...

[Efussander 0]

Hi Ethan,Unfortunately returning it won't solve the problem. They are all the same. There are lots of posts about it in the forums. I discovered this when my friend bought one. He finds it very difficult to control precisely in the pitch mode because it sticks. I did see a post by a German engineer that might be helpful. He said he pulled it apart and that there is a collar that the shaft goes through that binds and causes the problem. He split the collar so that the shaft moves freely. Of course, if you tried that mod and it went wrong you would be worse off than before.Clive Norman

I am not having a problem. My yoke doesn't creak. It moves in and out or side to side freely even if held in one position for a long time. Michal,I would like to polity disagree. I had the oportunity to fly in a full-motion 737 sim that was using a pair of linked PFC 737 yokes. I have felt the real 737 controls, and I think this well models the 'heavy' feeling when opperating the yoke. Question for anyone with an answer. My memory is not wanting to work right now, and I don't remember if the full column PFC yoke returns to center, or if it stays put. As I recall from the real 737, the yoke will slowly return to a mostly centered position due to the airflow on the control surfaces. ( same as in the Saratoga that I've flown )This is one of the downsides to a massively produced yoke like CH or saitek. When you let go of the yoke, it SHOOTS back to a centered position instantaneously.

[michal 44]

I had the oportunity to fly in a full-motion 737 sim that was using a pair of linked PFC 737 yokes.

If this was a real full motion level-D 737 sim it definitely did not have any PFC yokes there. The PFC yoke I used was extremly 'weak' in forces (you could move it with your pinky) - it felt exactly as a yoke when aircraft is sitting on the tarmac. This is not the response you get when flying.

[ahsmatt7 1,201]

If this was a real full motion level-D 737 sim it definitely did not have any PFC yokes there. The PFC yoke I used was extremly 'weak' in forces (you could move it with your pinky) - it felt exactly as a yoke when aircraft is sitting on the tarmac. This is not the response you get when flying.

A 737 yoke wont move at all when its sitting on the tarmac.