Hi, in lots of readme´s from downloaded files here on avsim I read, that uploading to Fsplanet.com isn´t allowed. Why not? Is this just because they do not like Fsplanet.com or is there something else?

Because lot of guys that upload their work on our servers don't feel very comfortable with seeing people making money with their files.

What? They´re making money with that?. I my pre-Avsim time I often downloaded something from there, but I never saw that they´re making money with "our" files. I can understand that the creators do not like that they ´re making money with their things.

If I remember correctly, they offer a paid membership that allows you to get faster downloads, etc. That might be the reason why. It doesn't really bug me too much but, one flight sim download website that really bugs me is Fly Away Simulations, which forces you to have a paid membership in order to download their files.

Because if I upload something and somebody is making money of it, well it better be me! One amusing copyright in a download I saw recently was: "If any part of this file is uploaded to fsplanet.com, then the owners of fsplanet.com have hereby agreed to pay the author $2000 per day until files are removed"

If I'm not mistaken it has to do with the owner of FSPlanet several years ago downloading files from other sites (Avsim, etc.) and then hosting them on his site without the developers of the files permission. This lead to an argument that since the freeware developers EULA did not explicitly state that their files could not be uploaded to FSPlanet that it was OK to do so. At that point the freeware developers who did not want their files uploaded to FSPlanet made sure that they added the info in their uploads stating not to do so.Also if a web site charges a subscription fee for faster downloads that does not constitute charging to download the file. Don't forget the other well known FlightSim site has subscriptions for faster downloads and many freeware developers upload over there. And then there's Hotfile, Rapidshare, Megaupload, Filesonic, etc.Todd

fsplanet only allows people to download files for a short time after they are first uploaded. To access the older files you must pay fsplanet for a membership.The fsplanet membership is not just about faster access. It is about being able to access older files which fsplanet locks away in its servers.Freeware files should be available for free and people should not have to pay to access them regardless of how old they are. By charging people to access older files fsplanet is in breach of most freeware licenses.

Because lot of guys that upload their work on our servers don't feel very comfortable with seeing people making money with their files.

I sometimes wonder if flightsim.com turns a profit from First Class Membership.

I sometimes wonder if flightsim.com turns a profit from First Class Membership.

Ahh, at least the second post in this thread which raises the "question" of Flightsim.com. Flightsim.com has a different model than sites which tempt the unsuspecting and choose to severely cripple download speeds or disable them altogether in order to tempt into paying for something that is offered for free. People often argue that we should not feel responsible, it's up to the buyer to beware. But truth is there are a lot of kids out there who've earned their first check or debit card, who maybe don't have the benefit of having full time parents--a luxury I had in my life. For so many these forums are their only outlet and quite often, their only example of morality and the teaching of right and wrong. I try to speak with that type of audience in mind. I feel we're so easy to judge and dismiss these type of sites as frivolous, or to excuse or rationalize their behavior. Unless the owners of these sites are giving their money away to a very good cause, I suspect they are getting more than just what they need to recoup their costs either directly or indirectly due to the exposure and "fame" they receive. They are taking the work of many members here we claim to respect, and using it to advertise their sites or themselves. Such sites have even tried to play with the word "freeware" to say it means whatever they want it to mean. Words like "copyright" are meaningless. Then when all else fails, they try to resort to intimidation to get what they want (which works with the more naive, but does not work with anyone who's had a decent amount of "life experience" and doesn't quake at the mention of the word "lawyer").Note I say "such sites" since I am not going to use this thread to come out and attack a site directly. But the parties that are guilty of this, they know who they are. Those that aid the practice and rationalize it know what they are doing, or at least should know. Mind you it's an argument freeware authors will never "win", since some see us as less than worthy unless we sell our work or give people carte blanche to do whatever they want.My licenses don't single out any site--but technically Flightsim.com or sites that use some type of means to subsidize themselves are guilty of violating my license terms when I don't directly upload a file there. As a freeware author, I trust their sincerity and choose to look the other way and also I always leave an "out" and tell sites they are free to contact me and ask. Many have, and 99 pct of the time I say yes. I won't do that for every site. That's what copyright offers us--the freedom to choose.As a last word, the "search" function will pull up countless threads on this subject. The players almost never change their points of view. The subject can be very inflammatory--just a word to the wise. It certainly arouses my passions and I've learned not to care about some of the responses that come back. They are just that--responses, not a reflection of the people that write them.Regards,JohnEdit: One item I forgot to mention is that after Avsim's incident with their servers, I understand more why sites try to subsidize themselves somehow for what they offer us. I am not against the practice, just against blatant abuses of it.

Ahh, at least the second post in this thread which raises the "question" of Flightsim.com. Flightsim.com has a different model than sites which tempt the unsuspecting and choose to severely cripple download speeds or disable them altogether in order to tempt into paying for something that is offered for free. People often argue that we should not feel responsible, it's up to the buyer to beware. But truth is there are a lot of kids out there who've earned their first check or debit card, who maybe don't have the benefit of having full time parents--a luxury I had in my life. For so many these forums are their only outlet and quite often, their only example of morality and the teaching of right and wrong. I try to speak with that type of audience in mind. I feel we're so easy to judge and dismiss these type of sites as frivolous, or to excuse or rationalize their behavior. Unless the owners of these sites are giving their money away to a very good cause, I suspect they are getting more than just what they need to recoup their costs either directly or indirectly due to the exposure and "fame" they receive. They are taking the work of many members here we claim to respect, and using it to advertise their sites or themselves. Such sites have even tried to play with the word "freeware" to say it means whatever they want it to mean. Words like "copyright" are meaningless. Then when all else fails, they try to resort to intimidation to get what they want (which works with the more naive, but does not work with anyone who's had a decent amount of "life experience" and doesn't quake at the mention of the word "lawyer").Note I say "such sites" since I am not going to use this thread to come out and attack a site directly. But the parties that are guilty of this, they know who they are. Those that aid the practice and rationalize it know what they are doing, or at least should know. Mind you it's an argument freeware authors will never "win", since some see us as less than worthy unless we sell our work or give people carte blanche to do whatever they want.My licenses don't single out any site--but technically Flightsim.com or sites that use some type of means to subsidize themselves are guilty of violating my license terms when I don't directly upload a file there. As a freeware author, I trust their sincerity and choose to look the other way and also I always leave an "out" and tell sites they are free to contact me and ask. Many have, and 99 pct of the time I say yes. I won't do that for every site. That's what copyright offers us--the freedom to choose.As a last word, the "search" function will pull up countless threads on this subject. The players almost never change their points of view. The subject can be very inflammatory--just a word to the wise. It certainly arouses my passions and I've learned not to care about some of the responses that come back. They are just that--responses, not a reflection of the people that write them.Regards,JohnEdit: One item I forgot to mention is that after Avsim's incident with their servers, I understand more why sites try to subsidize themselves somehow for what they offer us. I am not against the practice, just against blatant abuses of it.

Actually, FlightSim.com tends to limit downloads, instead of crippling them, to a maximum 2 downloads. Kind of a drag once it comes to sceneries such as Trevor Clark's RAF Tangmere scenery that requires a number of objects including the UK VFR scenery. In another case, a similar one has been on promotion with Simviation. Similarly with FlightSim.Com, Simviation provides an $30 express membership that allows quicker and more downloads, as well as the so-called 'no-ads' feature. If you opt to not register, you are limited to 30Kbps, which does not happen in my case, which reaches +49kbps for each download. The connection differences are actually attributed through local connection strength. This simply owes the option to either pay for the servers or not, depending on how much the contributor is willing to help them. In comparison however, Simviation divides its systems into three phases: one, the older system, which provides quick downoads, two, the newer system, which is slightly slower, and the new system, which unless is provided with excellent internet connection, holds the files for a while until at a point the FTP has received all data from the files and then allows the download to continue, which runs at a surprising 2GB speed (??)But unlike FSPlanet, these websites go through the wishes of the authors to whether upload their files to those sites or not. Fly Away is another example, with an exception that for a single membership, you'll have to pay for them for at least $5.On UKMIL, there are specific files that will require a "CLUB MEMBERSHIP", rendering them unavailable to free members like me. Dave.

"My licenses don't single out any site--but technically Flightsim.com or sites that use some type of means to subsidize themselves are guilty of violating my license terms when I don't directly upload a file there. As a freeware author, I trust their sincerity and choose to look the other way and also I always leave an "out" and tell sites they are free to contact me and ask. Many have, and 99 pct of the time I say yes. I won't do that for every site. That's what copyright offers us--the freedom to choose"Flightsim.com does not go out and farm other sites for files. Someone has to physically upload the file to the site, nor does anyone confirm the ownership of every upload. If a file gets posted and the author does not want the file posted, then a simple e-mail to the proper person will get the file taken down.Anyone want to venture a guess on how much it costs per month to host a flight sim web site that has an active download library? It would make your head spin.

I´m somehow impressed where this thread is heading to. Nice topic to evaluate further.As far I understand it, Fsplanet.com doesn´t care about the copyright.The fact, that Flightsim limits the number of simultaneous downloads in free membership do I feel quite often and it´s very anoying

Anyone want to venture a guess on how much it costs per month to host a flight sim web site that has an active download library? It would make your head spin.

I think it costs "tons" of money to run it properly like Avsim or Filgthsim do. But Avsim shows how this can be done without members letting the members pay for things declared as "freeware".

The fact, that Flightsim limits the number of simultaneous downloads in free membership do I feel quite often and it´s very anoying

Avsim also limits your simultaneous downloads to 5 or so but the only time I've ever hit that limit was when downloading all the WOAI files.

Avsim also limits your simultaneous downloads to 5 or so but the only time I've ever hit that limit was when downloading all the WOAI files.

I didn´t know that Avsim also limits the downloads, cause I´ve never downloaded so much simultaeously.

"My licenses don't single out any site--but technically Flightsim.com or sites that use some type of means to subsidize themselves are guilty of violating my license terms when I don't directly upload a file there. As a freeware author, I trust their sincerity and choose to look the other way and also I always leave an "out" and tell sites they are free to contact me and ask. Many have, and 99 pct of the time I say yes. I won't do that for every site. That's what copyright offers us--the freedom to choose"Flightsim.com does not go out and farm other sites for files. Someone has to physically upload the file to the site, nor does anyone confirm the ownership of every upload. If a file gets posted and the author does not want the file posted, then a simple e-mail to the proper person will get the file taken down.Anyone want to venture a guess on how much it costs per month to host a flight sim web site that has an active download library? It would make your head spin.

There's no proof that FSPlanet farms other sites for files unless you know of a court action I don't know of. Where did you get that from? I don't need to be lectured on how much it costs to host a flight sim web site. I was a mod here and my time alone cost me a lot. My head was spinning. If anything I was trying to place a positive light on Flightsim.com so I am curious why you're using my post to cast a shadow on this thread?John