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smithdavidp

The Possible truth about FSX

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Not many people will like this but here we go. FSX was designed as a PC game. When it was developed the authors put the bare minimums required to run the program on the box. Avid flight simmers now added, to the original program, sceneries, new aircraft, Vatsim, IVAO, and utilities. At first look we all say "this is great" but we fail to step back and consider what we have added to an, almost, maxed out product. The rough math would be somthing like [Win version x + FSX + added scenery + added aircraft + background software]. Now we decide that we want to have real time ATC and real time weather. Wait.....what did that box say was the minimums for running FSX????? FSX is already a resource hungry beast that demands a lot from your CPU. Your CPU then needs the memory to store processes that are qued up while it handles other active processes. Now our PC is freezing up, not giving us the expected frame rates, or giving us really bad graphics. We call Microsoft and complain and the first thing they look for is the add-on software. They demand that it be remove or they will not help us. This is because they know that FSX was close to being maxed out when the product was developed. But Johnny doesn't have these problems so it must be the softwares fault:Shame On You: . Lets take a look at the possibilities for this.Johnny likes to build his own machines seeing how powerful he can make it. We, however, have bought our machine off the shelf. The difference here is that Johnny didn't have all of the added software that came on our "off the shelf" purchase. You only need to run msconfig to see what is always running behind the scenes. HP is a very good example of this. When we start our PC we find that HP has loaded processes like HP Backup, HP maintenance, HP trouble shooter, etc. On top of this windows has some extra processes that is also run when the PC boots up. The thing I am trying to get at here is that no two machines are the same. To be able to have your PC run like Johnnys you must have, exactly, the same hardware and software configuration that Johnny has.:( When we turn to forums, to try to solve our problems, we find all kinds of helpful suggestions. Some work and some do not. The ones that don't work leave us frustraited while the ones that do make us happy. In either case we find that the results are based on the simularities between our machine and the machine that the fix worked on. This is because the files used to operate a system with a Pentium four processor are most definatly different than the files used to operate an i7 processor. Are we loading the same files as the author of the fix is? Are we running the same machine configuration as that author is running?:( My contention here is that, for the most part, no two machines run exactly the same. The answer seems to be obvious......run only the bare essentials to boot the machine and FSX. I started out with a pentium four and upgraded through a quad processor to an i7 processor. From Windows XP to Vista, to Windows 7 64 bit. Through each upgrade the problems changed.B) My XP, with a pentium four processor, ran FSX just fine along with software used to connect to Vatsim. It was, however, very slow and I wanted to speed things up. And, I should add, XP and FSX were the only programs running on the machine. I never could wrap my mind around the Vista machine, purchased from HP, enough to work through the problems that I experienced. I then purchased my current machine, also from HP, and became determined to make it work. I have, since purchasing this machine, modified the machines configuration. I started with adding memory to boost it from 6 gig ram to 8 gig of ram. Very little improvment but there was some. Recently I installed a GTX 460 video card which made for better graphices but did not improve performance. I then used my old pentium machine, with XP installed, as a file server and started running the Vatsim, weather engine, and Acars program on it. I realized some improvment. I then weeded through all the extra programs and processes that were starting when I booted up. I did not delete them but just stopped them from starting each time I started my machine. I now have acceptable performance from FSX. This is not to say I am getting great performance by any stretch of the imagination. I am still getting hiccups from Vatsim and ICAO but the graphics are pretty good.dry.gif Finally I would like to address one more issue......Windows updates. When windows updates your system what have they changed? Do any of us really know? Did we start having problems that didn't exsist before? I am personally very leary of the updates. This is not to say that I should quit updating my system and I still have the automatic updates turned on. But after a couple of the updates I discovered problems that I did not have before the updates. Windows 7 is still a mystery to many of us laymen specially where the security issues are concerned but do we really take the chance of not updating when Microsoft says the update is needed?:( These are just issues that are somthing to think about. I am no expert and I do not claim to have all the answers (far from it).

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Not many people will like this but here we go. FSX was designed as a PC game. When it was developed the authors put the bare minimums required to run the program on the box. Avid flight simmers now added, to the original program, sceneries, new aircraft, Vatsim, IVAO, and utilities. At first look we all say "this is great" but we fail to step back and consider what we have added to an, almost, maxed out product. The rough math would be somthing like [Win version x + FSX + added scenery + added aircraft + background software]. Now we decide that we want to have real time ATC and real time weather. Wait.....what did that box say was the minimums for running FSX????? FSX is already a resource hungry beast that demands a lot from your CPU. Your CPU then needs the memory to store processes that are qued up while it handles other active processes. Now our PC is freezing up, not giving us the expected frame rates, or giving us really bad graphics. We call Microsoft and complain and the first thing they look for is the add-on software. They demand that it be remove or they will not help us. This is because they know that FSX was close to being maxed out when the product was developed. But Johnny doesn't have these problems so it must be the softwares fault:Shame On You: . Lets take a look at the possibilities for this.Johnny likes to build his own machines seeing how powerful he can make it. We, however, have bought our machine off the shelf. The difference here is that Johnny didn't have all of the added software that came on our "off the shelf" purchase. You only need to run msconfig to see what is always running behind the scenes. HP is a very good example of this. When we start our PC we find that HP has loaded processes like HP Backup, HP maintenance, HP trouble shooter, etc. On top of this windows has some extra processes that is also run when the PC boots up. The thing I am trying to get at here is that no two machines are the same. To be able to have your PC run like Johnnys you must have, exactly, the same hardware and software configuration that Johnny has.:( When we turn to forums, to try to solve our problems, we find all kinds of helpful suggestions. Some work and some do not. The ones that don't work leave us frustraited while the ones that do make us happy. In either case we find that the results are based on the simularities between our machine and the machine that the fix worked on. This is because the files used to operate a system with a Pentium four processor are most definatly different than the files used to operate an i7 processor. Are we loading the same files as the author of the fix is? Are we running the same machine configuration as that author is running?:( My contention here is that, for the most part, no two machines run exactly the same. The answer seems to be obvious......run only the bare essentials to boot the machine and FSX. I started out with a pentium four and upgraded through a quad processor to an i7 processor. From Windows XP to Vista, to Windows 7 64 bit. Through each upgrade the problems changed.B) My XP, with a pentium four processor, ran FSX just fine along with software used to connect to Vatsim. It was, however, very slow and I wanted to speed things up. And, I should add, XP and FSX were the only programs running on the machine. I never could wrap my mind around the Vista machine, purchased from HP, enough to work through the problems that I experienced. I then purchased my current machine, also from HP, and became determined to make it work. I have, since purchasing this machine, modified the machines configuration. I started with adding memory to boost it from 6 gig ram to 8 gig of ram. Very little improvment but there was some. Recently I installed a GTX 460 video card which made for better graphices but did not improve performance. I then used my old pentium machine, with XP installed, as a file server and started running the Vatsim, weather engine, and Acars program on it. I realized some improvment. I then weeded through all the extra programs and processes that were starting when I booted up. I did not delete them but just stopped them from starting each time I started my machine. I now have acceptable performance from FSX. This is not to say I am getting great performance by any stretch of the imagination. I am still getting hiccups from Vatsim and ICAO but the graphics are pretty good.dry.gif Finally I would like to address one more issue......Windows updates. When windows updates your system what have they changed? Do any of us really know? Did we start having problems that didn't exsist before? I am personally very leary of the updates. This is not to say that I should quit updating my system and I still have the automatic updates turned on. But after a couple of the updates I discovered problems that I did not have before the updates. Windows 7 is still a mystery to many of us laymen specially where the security issues are concerned but do we really take the chance of not updating when Microsoft says the update is needed?:( These are just issues that are somthing to think about. I am no expert and I do not claim to have all the answers (far from it).
I love it when a program developed prior to a OS doesn't run right for them, automatically blame the program, not the OS. Did ACES have a Crystal Ball when they developed FSX of what WIN 7 would require. FSX was originally supposed to have been developed for Vista, but when all is said and done was really for Windows XP, which is the most stable platform to run it on. I'm still on WinXP on my FSX system, and have zero issues with CTD's. Performance is generally very good with the type of non complex models it was designed to handle. Even when used with the more complex models, in most cases I get pretty good performance in most locations and rarely less then the teens in the more dense scenery areas like New York. That's with scenery set to extremely dense, autogen dense. ASE weather, 100% UT2 or WOAI traffic. My system is only mid range too, by today's standards.An E6850 @3.00Ghz (Dell locks out Over clocking), a 9800GTX card and 4GB 800Mhz memory. Check out my videos to see the type of performance I get. Other addons I throw at it are UTUSA, Canada and EuropeX, GEX, REX2 for clouds and water. Ultimately you can't blame either program or OS for any incompatibilities, because when a new OS provides backward compatibility, they usually don't guarantee 100% compatibility, so it's always a risk to upgrade to a new OS and expect old programs to run seamlessly.

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Not many people will like this but here we go. FSX was designed as a PC game. When it was developed the authors put the bare minimums required to run the program on the box. Avid flight simmers now added, to the original program, sceneries, new aircraft, Vatsim, IVAO, and utilities. At first look we all say "this is great" but we fail to step back and consider what we have added to an, almost, maxed out product. The rough math would be somthing like [Win version x + FSX + added scenery + added aircraft + background software]. Now we decide that we want to have real time ATC and real time weather. Wait.....what did that box say was the minimums for running FSX????? FSX is already a resource hungry beast that demands a lot from your CPU. Your CPU then needs the memory to store processes that are qued up while it handles other active processes. Now our PC is freezing up, not giving us the expected frame rates, or giving us really bad graphics. We call Microsoft and complain and the first thing they look for is the add-on software. They demand that it be remove or they will not help us. This is because they know that FSX was close to being maxed out when the product was developed. But Johnny doesn't have these problems so it must be the softwares fault:Shame On You: . Lets take a look at the possibilities for this.Johnny likes to build his own machines seeing how powerful he can make it. We, however, have bought our machine off the shelf. The difference here is that Johnny didn't have all of the added software that came on our "off the shelf" purchase. You only need to run msconfig to see what is always running behind the scenes. HP is a very good example of this. When we start our PC we find that HP has loaded processes like HP Backup, HP maintenance, HP trouble shooter, etc. On top of this windows has some extra processes that is also run when the PC boots up. The thing I am trying to get at here is that no two machines are the same. To be able to have your PC run like Johnnys you must have, exactly, the same hardware and software configuration that Johnny has.:( When we turn to forums, to try to solve our problems, we find all kinds of helpful suggestions. Some work and some do not. The ones that don't work leave us frustraited while the ones that do make us happy. In either case we find that the results are based on the simularities between our machine and the machine that the fix worked on. This is because the files used to operate a system with a Pentium four processor are most definatly different than the files used to operate an i7 processor. Are we loading the same files as the author of the fix is? Are we running the same machine configuration as that author is running?:( My contention here is that, for the most part, no two machines run exactly the same. The answer seems to be obvious......run only the bare essentials to boot the machine and FSX. I started out with a pentium four and upgraded through a quad processor to an i7 processor. From Windows XP to Vista, to Windows 7 64 bit. Through each upgrade the problems changed.B) My XP, with a pentium four processor, ran FSX just fine along with software used to connect to Vatsim. It was, however, very slow and I wanted to speed things up. And, I should add, XP and FSX were the only programs running on the machine. I never could wrap my mind around the Vista machine, purchased from HP, enough to work through the problems that I experienced. I then purchased my current machine, also from HP, and became determined to make it work. I have, since purchasing this machine, modified the machines configuration. I started with adding memory to boost it from 6 gig ram to 8 gig of ram. Very little improvment but there was some. Recently I installed a GTX 460 video card which made for better graphices but did not improve performance. I then used my old pentium machine, with XP installed, as a file server and started running the Vatsim, weather engine, and Acars program on it. I realized some improvment. I then weeded through all the extra programs and processes that were starting when I booted up. I did not delete them but just stopped them from starting each time I started my machine. I now have acceptable performance from FSX. This is not to say I am getting great performance by any stretch of the imagination. I am still getting hiccups from Vatsim and ICAO but the graphics are pretty good.dry.gif Finally I would like to address one more issue......Windows updates. When windows updates your system what have they changed? Do any of us really know? Did we start having problems that didn't exsist before? I am personally very leary of the updates. This is not to say that I should quit updating my system and I still have the automatic updates turned on. But after a couple of the updates I discovered problems that I did not have before the updates. Windows 7 is still a mystery to many of us laymen specially where the security issues are concerned but do we really take the chance of not updating when Microsoft says the update is needed?:( These are just issues that are somthing to think about. I am no expert and I do not claim to have all the answers (far from it).
You're new around here, aren't ya?... B)

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Smithdavidp, Reading your post made me smile as i pretty much did the same HP pc's purchases since 2006, right up to an HP Elite m9180f with an I7-920 proc. and a nVidia 250GTs video card bought in July 2009; altough a very good improvment from my previous HP with a Intel quad 6600, i soon realized that it would not give me what i wanted without overclocking, which is impossible with an HP....So i ended up building one from scratch, overclock to 4.0, finally gives a much better experience out of FSX and all the add-ons like REX, FTX, UTX and GEX.My point is, a year since i started this homebuild and replacing parts along the way (no matter how much you read on the subject before hand, there is always a part to replace for a better one), i finally reached a point were all parts of this pc are in sync, right memory timings, right video card, right power supply, cooling, etc. until tou reach that point, problems and CTD will happen.Now this PC is used only for FSX as the m9180f is now my race sim only PC with the HP 6600quad is use for day to day tasks...Blaming the OS or FSX is futile and a waste if time if the hardware is not up to par, or if software is not optimize, as you said for exemple that HP will stuff the OS with a lot of background task that slows down FSX, which need every ressources possible from the PC to start with...In conclusion i am amazed that FSX works at all with all the different add-ons, pc configuration and user different level of PC/software knowledge that exists in the world..Alain from Montreal

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Sliders, people, FSX is made with sliders!Turn them down if you can´t fly it. Very, very simple tweak...:(

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Guest wims

Its 5 years since they released FSX so it really is quite amazing that it doesnt run at like 250fps with everything maxed out. What it really comes down to is a terrible game engine that was designed 15-20 years ago and too much of that legacy is still around in FSX.

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The #3 tweak is to turn off the FPS display and just fly.

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Guest TomOOO
The #3 tweak is to turn off the FPS display and just fly.
rofl !

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DavidAren't we our own worst enemies you say: "I started with adding memory to boost it from 6 gig ram to 8 gig of ram" but you are running an i7 I believe that is optimise to run ram im 3 , 6 or 12GB RAM configurations adding an extra stick just may have negated any gains that you might have made! :( (If you purchased an i7 8xx series then on 6GB it was being throttled and with 8GB should run better)I publish again the tweaks that I use:The FSX Tweaks:The King’s/Emperor’s new clothes tweak aka ‘The Snake Oil’ tweak; Here you convince yourself that any tweak makes FSX fly faster whether it does or not. This tweaker is naked and a half-full glass simmer.The RigidExpert Tweaks: Here you apply a rigid set of hardware and software tweaks but if you mess up your computer lays an egg and begins clucking.The Hari Kari Tweaks: Here you apply every tweak known to man, and this causes your system to die and it needs disembowelling before it will function again.The config tweaks: Here you apply every conceivable tweak to the FSX.cfg file and then when it is suggested you create a new cfg file you discover FSX runs much better.The Divine Tweaks: A set of commandment like tweaks set in tablets of stone, that must be applied religiously, but when they fail you get a burning bus(h).The Absolute Zero Cool tweaks: Here you cool your seepeeyou and video card down to 0 degrees Kelvin about -273 degrees centigrade (or 460 degrees F for our American Cousins) using if you can get liquid Nitrogen. In FSX your planes all appear with icicles!!The size does matter tweak: Here you buy the most expensive machine and components that you can’t afford and you match every component religiously, but surprise, surprise it doesn’t run FSX any better than the PC you have just confined to the rubbish tip!The Overclocking tweaks: Here you turbo charge every conceivable part of your system and wonder why your computer ticks constantly like the alligator in Peter Pan and alarm bells keep going off!The Brazilian Tweaks: Here you attempt to stop stuttering as you approach the landing strip. Unfortunately this only works for older machines it will never work on a young un’.The PEE-ESS-EWE tweak: Here you buy the largest power supply that you don’t need and needs a small nuclear power station to keep it in juice and then you wonder why you get meltdown.The Repetitive Insecure Tweaks: Here you ask the same question over and over again ad nauseam, even though it has been discussed for the last two eons, you still need to ask before you apply the tweaks!The Best Operating System Tweak: Here you convince yourself that Windows XP OS is the best thing since sliced bread (even better than Windows ME)and that Vista was the worst thing that has happened to humanity since the dawn of time, and Windows 7 is akin to the second coming. Meanwhile FSX stutters on!The defrag tweaks: Here you constantly defrag your hard drive, convincing yourself that everything is running better, eventually your HDD is flogged to death and then you buy a SSD and wonder why you bothered!The All Consuming tweaks: Here you spend so much time applying tweaks you don’t get time to fly.The Tweak AcronymTerribleWaste of timeEnhancements that areAbsolutely theKiss of DeathRegardsPeterH

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Guest anthony31fs

Performance problems? What performance problems. Just look at this screenshot. 293fps easy. And on only an e8500 core2duo at 3.14Ghz with XP.Sure, there might be some of you who will point out that all the sliders are all the way to the left and that the airplane consists of only a hand held radio but you can't have everything in this world. :)

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DavidAren't we our own worst enemies you say: "I started with adding memory to boost it from 6 gig ram to 8 gig of ram" but you are running an i7 I believe that is optimise to run ram im 3 , 6 or 12GB RAM configurations adding an extra stick just may have negated any gains that you might have made! :( (If you purchased an i7 8xx series then on 6GB it was being throttled and with 8GB should run better)I publish again the tweaks that I use:The FSX Tweaks:The King’s/Emperor’s new clothes tweak aka ‘The Snake Oil’ tweak; Here you convince yourself that any tweak makes FSX fly faster whether it does or not. This tweaker is naked and a half-full glass simmer.The RigidExpert Tweaks: Here you apply a rigid set of hardware and software tweaks but if you mess up your computer lays an egg and begins clucking.The Hari Kari Tweaks: Here you apply every tweak known to man, and this causes your system to die and it needs disembowelling before it will function again.The config tweaks: Here you apply every conceivable tweak to the FSX.cfg file and then when it is suggested you create a new cfg file you discover FSX runs much better.The Divine Tweaks: A set of commandment like tweaks set in tablets of stone, that must be applied religiously, but when they fail you get a burning bus(h).The Absolute Zero Cool tweaks: Here you cool your seepeeyou and video card down to 0 degrees Kelvin about -273 degrees centigrade (or 460 degrees F for our American Cousins) using if you can get liquid Nitrogen. In FSX your planes all appear with icicles!!The size does matter tweak: Here you buy the most expensive machine and components that you can’t afford and you match every component religiously, but surprise, surprise it doesn’t run FSX any better than the PC you have just confined to the rubbish tip!The Overclocking tweaks: Here you turbo charge every conceivable part of your system and wonder why your computer ticks constantly like the alligator in Peter Pan and alarm bells keep going off!The Brazilian Tweaks: Here you attempt to stop stuttering as you approach the landing strip. Unfortunately this only works for older machines it will never work on a young un’.The PEE-ESS-EWE tweak: Here you buy the largest power supply that you don’t need and needs a small nuclear power station to keep it in juice and then you wonder why you get meltdown.The Repetitive Insecure Tweaks: Here you ask the same question over and over again ad nauseam, even though it has been discussed for the last two eons, you still need to ask before you apply the tweaks!The Best Operating System Tweak: Here you convince yourself that Windows XP OS is the best thing since sliced bread (even better than Windows ME)and that Vista was the worst thing that has happened to humanity since the dawn of time, and Windows 7 is akin to the second coming. Meanwhile FSX stutters on!The defrag tweaks: Here you constantly defrag your hard drive, convincing yourself that everything is running better, eventually your HDD is flogged to death and then you buy a SSD and wonder why you bothered!The All Consuming tweaks: Here you spend so much time applying tweaks you don’t get time to fly.The Tweak AcronymTerribleWaste of timeEnhancements that areAbsolutely theKiss of DeathRegardsPeterH
PRICELESS!! I'm having a poster made from this to hang on the wall. Thanks, needed a good laugh today.Steve

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Performance problems? What performance problems. Just look at this screenshot. 293fps easy. And on only an e8500 core2duo at 3.14Ghz with XP.Sure, there might be some of you who will point out that all the sliders are all the way to the left and that the airplane consists of only a hand held radio but you can't have everything in this world. :)
This scene better runs with 800fps - away :-) - it causes eye cancer.

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Good post Dave.I am close to being extremely happy with FSX and it has come a long way since I first installed it a couple of years ago going from tan desert textures (almost everywhere) to what it is now.Funny enough I was considering upgrading to a new computer i7 9XX Extreme with SSD hard drives etc. and then I thought, well it is going to run smooth and the graphics will be superb but I will be stuck looking at an LCD monitor in 2 dimensions and what will be missing would be the feeling of immersion which I do not consider to be an issue at this time.Keep up the discussion gents, it's getting interesting. Pete, loved your post buddy, that was a good laugh.

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I started out with a pentium four and upgraded through a quad processor to an i7 processor. From Windows XP to Vista, to Windows 7 64 bit. Through each upgrade the problems changed.:( My XP, with a pentium four processor, ran FSX just fine along with software used to connect to Vatsim. It was, however, very slow and I wanted to speed things up. And, I should add, XP and FSX were the only programs running on the machine. I never could wrap my mind around the Vista machine, purchased from HP, enough to work through the problems that I experienced. I then purchased my current machine, also from HP, and became determined to make it work. I have, since purchasing this machine, modified the machines configuration. I started with adding memory to boost it from 6 gig ram to 8 gig of ram. Very little improvment but there was some. Recently I installed a GTX 460 video card which made for better graphices but did not improve performance. I then used my old pentium machine, with XP installed, as a file server and started running the Vatsim, weather engine, and Acars program on it. I realized some improvment. I then weeded through all the extra programs and processes that were starting when I booted up. I did not delete them but just stopped them from starting each time I started my machine. I now have acceptable performance from FSX. This is not to say I am getting great performance by any stretch of the imagination. I am still getting hiccups from Vatsim and ICAO but the graphics are pretty good.dry.gif
Wow I have been on the same machine since 1/14/2008 and have exquisite performance by all measures. I made one final Bejote tweak recently and it's insane the thing runs better than ever. Oh, it ran wonderfully before with excellent IQ & texture update rate, smoothness and frames using the main Bejote tweaks, save one. When I put together my current machines I had hoped that overclocked Penryn quad would tie me through at least two full processor iterations, and there is no question, it has. There is truly no need to upgrade still, even today. I run the most complex FTX scenery, PMDG birds, and now w/ full right sliders throughout, even full density clouds out to 110m. I have it all running on Vista 64, 4GB of fast memory, and the GTX 280 is doing a job fine. The key Bejote performance tweaks were the foundation stable high end performance, on a tuned platform of adequate resources, and the final touch came from losing nHancer's 8XS antialiasing, and going w/ application-controlled AA & AI. The final lubricant comes from FPS Limiter.exe, a utility I recognized as useful some time ago, and introduced it as a utility to control surges while limiting frames in a way that allows FSX's internal limiter to run unlimited. All this has optimized performance to for all practical purposes, perfection, and this on an aging platform. The OS is moderately lean, though w/ internet & Avast!, Excel, and a few other minor programs. I use GameBoost or whatever it is called to shutdown unneeded processes during boot up of FSX. I use lots of smaller addons as well such as FSLive, FSPassengersX, REX2 weather, and more. No CTD's either.You're right, there alot of variability machine to machine. But I think my experience is hope if not proof you don't need the highest end to get high end perf w/ FSX.Noel

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