Hello all,Long time PMDG customer, but first post in many years. Used to post all the time, but had to build a new profile, no clue what my old user name or login was, so I'm starting over.First off, Ive put 100's of hours on the PMDG 737NG, and a few on the 747, but have taken a couple of years off. A new computer and the NGX will change all of that!On to the question for the PMDG folks, and the rest of the crew.I've worked for a "large 737NG operator" based out of KSEA for the past 14 years now, and recently was studying our ETOPS flight and MTX operation manuals. For flight planning, the ETOPS flight operations manual breaks down the FMC planning step by step in addition to normal flight planning. Basically we are to "create a EEP (ETOPS Entry Point) CP1 (Critical Point) and EXP (ETOPS Exit Point) in the Temp Nav Data within the FMC. So the manual says we build a temp fix for that flight for each point using the coordinates for the EEP, CP1 and EXP given on that flights dispatch release. Id post a example of the one of our ETOPS dispatch releases, but I'm not sure of the legal ramifications, so I won't. My question? With the current PMDG 737NG, I've been unable to create a temp fix as required for ETOPS, and have spoken to a few of our pilots (also PMDG customers!!!) and they've indicated that its not really possible with the PMDG software. Will the NGX FMC have this ability? Ryan

We probably will have to enter it manually.With the 2 fix pages.

We probably will have to enter it manually.With the 2 fix pages.

Can we do that under the current 737NG FMC fix pages? The ETOPS manual says that we're required to build all three fixes with the title of EEP, CP1 and EXP, then enter their given coordinates for that particular flight. I can pull up a ETOPS release (ETOPS Analysis) and get that info, but the fix pages don't allow me to create a fix (temp fix). Did I miss something within the Fix pages?

You could create two along track WPT entries (several methods), then save the route, exit FS, edit the WPT names in the rte file before restarting FS...but that is a pain.

You could create two along track WPT entries (several methods), then save the route, exit FS, edit the WPT names in the rte file before restarting FS...but that is a pain.

Good point, and I've thought of that too. But you're right, its a pain, and not very realistic.

I don't understand why PMDG hasn't responded to this thread. I find this thread verys interesting and a benefit to everyone that reads it, yet there is no answer from PMDG. However, we get morons like this http://forum.avsim.net/topic/331209-pmdg-only-making-for-fsx/ start a dumb-###### thread and he get's an answer in hours lol

I don't understand why PMDG hasn't responded to this thread. I find this thread verys interesting and a benefit to everyone that reads it, yet there is no answer from PMDG. However, we get morons like this http://forum.avsim.net/topic/331209-pmdg-only-making-for-fsx/ start a dumb-###### thread and he get's an answer in hours lol

Maybe PMDG are sleepy.

Hey Ryan. I can not say 100% for sure but judging what Robert and the boys are doing to this NGX, I would go out on a limb and say there is a good chance of them doing that. But like I said I can't say for sure. You could just do the quick ring around the airport that is based on the EEP and EXP. So if you are flying to Hawaii just put a ring around PHOG or wherever. I think the distance is 388 miles for the non winglet and 394 for the winglet version. It's been a whle since I flew ETOPS online but those distances ring a bell.

You can name a defined waypoint in the MD11, can't you? I'd assume, based on that, that their experience would carry over to include the feature in the NGX. One, they've done it in another aircraft, two, it seems as if it's a feature in its real world counterpart as well.

Hi,This is an area of annoyance for me - waypoint management is overlooked by numerous developers (not just PMDG). There is more to waypoints than just what is in the database that month. :( If you can, see if you can input the waypoints as Lat/Lon. It won't give you the waypoint name you are looking for, but you can at least get it in there.Best regards,Robin.

Hey Ryan. I can not say 100% for sure but judging what Robert and the boys are doing to this NGX, I would go out on a limb and say there is a good chance of them doing that. But like I said I can't say for sure. You could just do the quick ring around the airport that is based on the EEP and EXP. So if you are flying to Hawaii just put a ring around PHOG or wherever. I think the distance is 388 miles for the non winglet and 394 for the winglet version. It's been a whle since I flew ETOPS online but those distances ring a bell.

Good call. I took a look in the FOM again today for the allowed distance for ETOPS 180 minute rules and came up with this....

.79M/310 kts for the 737-800 one engine inoperativediversion speed and a reference weight of 170,000 lbs. The authorized maximumdiversion time is 180 minutes. The resulting distances are 418 nm for 60 minutesand 1,219 nm for 180 minutes diversion.

This should work for the current PMDG 737NG, though still not an allowable real world ETOPS procedure.

If you can, see if you can input the waypoints as Lat/Lon. It won't give you the waypoint name you are looking for, but you can at least get it in there.Best regards,Robin.

I"ll give that a try, thanks!Really the only way to truly and accurately simulate a ETOPS flight is to have the ability to create multiple temp fixes with in the FMC environment for display and use on the ND.......correct?I've got an ETOPS plotter issued to each of our pilots, and its got a great Quick Reference table printed in it. I'll get it scanned and post it. Its got some procedure for before you enter the EEP (start APU, set .79M...etc) all the required checks for each FP waypoint transition, as well as the EXP procedures and some emergency planning tools. Very cool.

Yeah sorry Ryan. I meant to say those 388 and 394 are or each hour at single engine speed bur I think yo figured that out.JackColwill

Got permission to post a copy of the ETOPS Plotter we currently use. Its a scanned copy of the transparent plastic tool in use, so its not the sharpest copy, but still usable for those interested in ETOPS planning and en-route procedures. I'd love to post the 5+ sections in the manual that cover ETOPS as there is a ton of great information, but I'm not going to go that far for obvious reasons.Will still love to get some input from the PMDG folks about the above questions. Anyone home?Enjoy the plotter, let me know if anyone finds it useful or the least bit interesting.

@559AS Thanks for the post and the ETOPS Plotter. Just one question, why do you run the APU while in ETOPS doesn't that just increase fuel consumption? (sorry if it is a stupid question and I'm just missing the obvious)Michael

@559AS Thanks for the post and the ETOPS Plotter. Just one question, why do you run the APU while in ETOPS doesn't that just increase fuel consumption? (sorry if it is a stupid question and I'm just missing the obvious)Michael

Its not a stupid question at all. ETOPS rules required that the APU be "started and ready for immediate use" before entering the ETOPS operation area, and remain that way until you've exited the ETOPS operation area. Its for added redundancy for both an electrical source and bleed air source in the event you lose a engine GEN or bleed (or just an engine all together) while flying under ETOPS. From the manual....APU OPERATION-ETOPSThe 737NG certification requires the APU to be operating during the portion of the flight conducted in the ETOPS area (EEP to EXP). ETOPS flights will not cross the EEP without the APU running and the APU Generator available for immediate operation. If the APU fails prior to the EEP, the Flight Crew will divert back to the departure airport or an adequate alternate. Anyone let me know if I've missed something, but I think that's it.