Pitot tubes still suspect to triggering main event? No flying thru a level 5 TS was.

My house was not on a cliff but a rolling hill....Shaped just like the wing of an aircraft.Therefore if the winds coming off of the ocean were around 160 km/h, the winds became 180 km/h as it passed over my house. It is the same increase in pressure as air passes over the top of a wing of an aircraft. Imagine living in a house on top of a hill with that same shape as an aircraft, and looking over the ocean.This was my home. Difference between Shipping News and my former home was my former house was built in 1973. It is a white brick bungalow designed to withstand winds of up to (and over) 240 km/h. I can say that this house has survived ever yearly storm since 1973. I have never seen a tougher house in my entire life.

Almost like you need deployable spoilers on your roof to dump the lift!

Another thing about this house is it overlooks Shearwater Airport, the location where they rebuilt Swissair Flight 111. From my front porch I could see those pieces from that MD-11 being brought in from the Atlantic Ocean. That was a very sad and surreal experience for me.

I can imagine you can't get those pictures out of your mind...

...And to top things off, the senior Captain was not in the cockpit at the time emergency starts. RJ

That's the frst indication of pilot error I have read so far: My thought is if you're about to cross a squall line maybe the Captain should be in the cockpit.Cheers,- jahman.

Pitot tubes still suspect to triggering main event? No flying thru a level 5 TS was.

Exactly!!! They should never have been anywhere near that storm!!!! In my mind it has always pointed towards pilot error. If the black boxes show that there was an "intent" to fly through the storm then as has been said before the pitot tubes are a side issue and are a result of a bad decision. And if it is also true that the captain was not in the cockpit as things started to deteriorate. Why not!!!!!!The moral in this story: "Check the enroute weather before you fly. If there is any chance of storms cancel your flight with AF and transfer to BA!!!" vololiberista

This says it all,http://www.bea.aero/en/enquetes/flight.af.447/trajectoires/trajectoires010609.htmlHopefully the CVR can clue us in on the crew mindset.Notice AFR 459 seems to be hunting back and forth,looking for the sweet spot,And 447 barrels straight ahead,as if the crew was asleep.

Exactly!!! They should never have been anywhere near that storm!!!! In my mind it has always pointed towards pilot error. If the black boxes show that there was an "intent" to fly through the storm then as has been said before the pitot tubes are a side issue and are a result of a bad decision. And if it is also true that the captain was not in the cockpit as things started to deteriorate. Why not!!!!!!The moral in this story: "Check the enroute weather before you fly. If there is any chance of storms cancel your flight with AF and transfer to BA!!!" vololiberista

Any reason why your screaming and shouting like a 2 year old?calm down on the !!!!!!!!!!!!!....not required.

Any reason why your screaming and shouting like a 2 year old?calm down on the !!!!!!!!!!!!!....not required.

I'm sorry????? I think it is you that is out of turn. I am perfectly able to express my views on this terrible accident.and these have been my views since day one!!!!!!I think it is you who needs to calm down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!vololiberista

Exactly!!! They should never have been anywhere near that storm!!!! In my mind it has always pointed towards pilot error. If the black boxes show that there was an "intent" to fly through the storm then as has been said before the pitot tubes are a side issue and are a result of a bad decision. And if it is also true that the captain was not in the cockpit as things started to deteriorate. Why not!!!!!!The moral in this story: "Check the enroute weather before you fly. If there is any chance of storms cancel your flight with AF and transfer to BA!!!" vololiberista

More words of wisdom from Vololiberista.... Information is out already that they did not intentionaly fly through the storm (however let's wait for the CVR transcript and initial report)In fact, from the information that has been unofficially released they had managed to escape any major turbulence. Why was the Captain in the bunk? Why not! You have three fully trained flight crew onboard, the F/O in the LHS had more hours on type then the Captain! It has already been established that when the A/P disconnected the aircraft experienced a sudden pitch up contributing to the loss of control. The issues goes much deeper then your small minded theory’s on pitch and power, who is in the LHS and what airline we decide to fly on.And btw, what commercial aircraft did you used to operate? the VC10? I would still like to know what experience you have in flying an A330 in Alternate or Direct Law.Regards

More words of wisdom from Vololiberista.... Information is out already that they did not intentionaly fly through the storm (however let's wait for the CVR transcript and initial report)In fact, from the information that has been unofficially released they had managed to escape any major turbulence. Why was the Captain in the bunk? Why not! You have three fully trained flight crew onboard, the F/O in the LHS had more hours on type then the Captain! It has already been established that when the A/P disconnected the aircraft experienced a sudden pitch up contributing to the loss of control. The issues goes much deeper then your small minded theory’s on pitch and power, who is in the LHS and what airline we decide to fly on.And btw, what commercial aircraft did you used to operate? the VC10? I would still like to know what experience you have in flying an A330 in Alternate or Direct Law.Regards

Exactly! <--- Single exclamation mark does the trick! <--- Single exclamation mark does the trick! (Help! I´m stuck in a loop!)WRT weather forecasts, vololib need to remember they are exactly that: Forecasts, and no forecast in the World will ever tell you exactly where each TS cell will form. You will only find that out once you get there and are a mere 5 to 10 minutes away from a wall of those monsters! <--- Single exclamation mark does the trick! <--- Single exclamation mark does the trick! (Help! I´m stuck in a loop! Again!)Cheers,- jahman.

This says it all,http://www.bea.aero/en/enquetes/flight.af.447/trajectoires/trajectoires010609.htmlHopefully the CVR can clue us in on the crew mindset.Notice AFR 459 seems to be hunting back and forth,looking for the sweet spot,And 447 barrels straight ahead,as if the crew was asleep.

Yup, seeing those tracks of all those aircraft makes it look very much looks like a poor decision on the crew's part, but I'd hesitate to say that was conclusive until we know everything, or at least as much as we can know. For example, that simulation might be a bit 'selective' in order to prove an assertion, i.e. were there any other aircraft other than the ones shown in that simulation which went through the storm, possibly military ones not so easily tracked that AF447 might have followed visually?Even if there were no other aircraft going the same way, we still have to ask, was AF447's radar working? Was there perhaps some reason why they could not turn? It's easy to blame dead pilots when trying to put an investigation to bed, but when they are not around to defend themselves, that is the very time we need to give them the fairest hearing we can. Sometimes people forget that the duty of air accident investigators is not to apportion blame, but to determine what happened. As you say, the CVR might tell us a bit more.Al

It has already been established that when the A/P disconnected the aircraft experienced a sudden pitch up contributing to the loss of control. The issues goes much deeper then your small minded theory’s on pitch and power, who is in the LHS and what airline we decide to fly on.

It's not a small minded theory!! It's correct and proper training through which every UK pilots must go. In fact I almost always have flown where the a/c has a control column with my hand on it especially during turbulence. As for "alternate law" that has been revised many times since the early days now allowing the pilot more direct control. If the pilots at the controls were indeed caught out by the a/c pitching up after ap disconnect they clearly were not monitoring the situation very well. You can disagree as much as you like. But I base my point of view on many many years of flying experience starting on the VC10 (the best) 747 and A340. And, I can proudly announce that I have never flown through a thunderstorm. I have always avoided/diverted and have never been criticised for doing so.vololiberista

Just out from CNN: Air France Pilots Lost Vital Speed DataIt's the coffin corner again: Pilots were confused, failed to push nose down to increase KIAS and recover from the stall, perhaps thinking they could go into an (unrecoverable) mach tuck.So, never mind the TS's, had they had consistent and proper airspeed indications, nothing at all would have happened. The Thales pitots were mis-designed, AF knew it, and replaced them PDQ after the accident. Pilots exonerated. Case closed. Vololib, take note.Cheers,- jahman.

So, never mind the TS's, had they had consistent and proper airspeed indications, nothing at all would have happened. The Thales pitots were mis-designed, AF knew it, and replaced them PDQ after the accident. Pilots exonerated. Case closed. Vololib, take note.

The TSs are the reason for the pitot blockage. And the lack of aircraft control I believe. Other than that, absolutely!

The TSs are the reason for the pitot blockage. And the lack of aircraft control I believe. Other than that, absolutely!

Yes, as a "contributing factor".Cheers,- jahman.

Hello, everyone.While I understand that this is a Sim site there are enough real world Pilots around to justify this serious discussion on this subject.The bottom line, and my opinion only, is that a number of lessons can be learned from this accident and the most important is that we still have to design, and the Pilots must be able to, fly the basic, bare bones, aircraft. In this case there is a lot of blame to go around and it's an accident that did not have to happen. TV

Yes, but the pilots may have 'lost vital speed speed data' because they flew the aircraft into a meteorological phenomena that was always going to cause that, regardless of the equipment the aircraft had.If anyone imagines that solely this one make of pitot tube and static port is the only one that would give erroneous readings in a thunderstorm, and all other makes would somehow perform flawlessly and allow one to chug through a cumulonimbus cloud without any danger, then they know nothing about either thunderstorms or pitot tubes. So this statement alone does not exonerate the pilots, nor does it condemn them either until we know more about why they flew through that storm.If an aircraft is trimmed properly and has the correct throttle settings, you could remove all the airspeed info from panel and it would still fly as expected, providing it wasn't being tossed around in a cumulonimbus cloud, at which point, all bets are off, which is why you shouldn't fly through a thunderstorm.Al