Surely you can't be serious? If yes, thanks for the laugh!

I am serious. The World Trade Commission WTC found that Airbus Industrie was guilty of over $20 Billion in illegal subsidies, while Boeing was only guilty of $2.7 Billion. therefore Airbus's $4-5 Billion received JUST for research and development of the A380 is more than all of Boeing's subsidies.

therefore Airbus's $4-5 Billion received JUST for research and development of the A380 is more than all of Boeing's subsidies.

And how many billion $ in subsidies, did Boeing received over the past 30 years in military research, that help in the conception and development of civilian aircraft ?Ben

I am serious. The World Trade Commission WTC found that Airbus Industrie was guilty of over $20 Billion in illegal subsidies, while Boeing was only guilty of $2.7 Billion. therefore Airbus's $4-5 Billion received JUST for research and development of the A380 is more than all of Boeing's subsidies.

It was the World Trade Organisation, not Commission, WTO not WTC. Or were you just telling another one of your little jokes? Face it, $2.7 Billion would barely put a lazer in the nose of a 747. Both sides use dirty business practice and that is unfortunate for their respective tax payers, but unsurprising. Both sides make excellent aircraft and as simmers and passengers, that is what we care about.

I am serious.

Well, not everyone is convinced. And stating that one party cheated less than the other is a very poor argument (and ignores the other forms or massive help Boeing received from the US government over time). If you really want to be serious, just admit that there is a commercial war going on out there and that nobody wants to lose it.I hope your reviews for flightsim.com are less biassed...or naive.Bruno

Actually Airbus put out a service bulletin that states the wings should have the ice cleared before takeoff by smashing them into something. Attached is a video demonstration of the revised de-icing procedure. :(A380 De-Icing

And how many billion $ in subsidies, did Boeing received over the past 30 years in military research, that help in the conception and development of civilian aircraft ?Ben

Military subsidies used for civilian development is what Boeing is all about. Spot on there

I am serious.

I thought we had all grown up by now - apparently not

Actually Airbus put out a service bulletin that states the wings should have the ice cleared before takeoff by smashing them into something. Attached is a video demonstration of the revised de-icing procedure. :(A380 De-Icing

Oops!

Actually Airbus put out a service bulletin that states the wings should have the ice cleared before takeoff by smashing them into something. Attached is a video demonstration of the revised de-icing procedure. :(A380 De-Icing

Ouch! Was the CRJ Loaded? Man, that is horrible.

That CRJ was full, they evacuated onto the taxiway, but the A380 passengers disembarked at a gate. Pilot of the CRJ simply radioed, "Roll the trucks on Mike, we've just been hit by Air France"

Harsh competition out there...Maybe JFK is getting saturated ? :(

Well, not everyone is convinced. And stating that one party cheated less than the other is a very poor argument (and ignores the other forms or massive help Boeing received from the US government over time). If you really want to be serious, just admit that there is a commercial war going on out there and that nobody wants to lose it.I hope your reviews for flightsim.com are less biassed...or naive.Bruno

Totally agree with you Bruno. One form of government help that Boeing certainly used to get (and maybe still do) was that every export customer would be offered extremely favourable finance terms organised by and at the expense of the US government. If that isn't a subsidy by another name, I don't know what is. This is in addition to all the military subsidies as others have said, much of which is later used in commercial designs. The trouble is Americans never like any form of competition, they want to feel that they rule the world and they cry "foul" at every opportunity when they flout the rules just as much.Iain Smith

The trouble is Americans never like any form of competition, they want to feel that they rule the world and they cry "foul" at every opportunity when they flout the rules just as much.Iain Smith

Lets not make this a debate on which country does what.Then again why are we discussing A380 on a commerical software companies forum that doesn't (or not yet) build a single airbus?

The trouble is Americans never like any form of competition, they want to feel that they rule the world and they cry "foul" at every opportunity when they flout the rules just as much.

I'll refer you to the book mentioned earlier. Airbus cried foul just as loudly a Boeing did, charging that Boeing received illicit subsidies from the US government. They are both multi-billion dollar companies, and will do whatever it takes to place their products ahead of the others.

And how many billion $ in subsidies, did Boeing received over the past 30 years in military research, that help in the conception and development of civilian aircraft ?Ben

Well actually those subsidies aren't illegal, since you know these planes were all made FOR THE U.S MILITARY, and therefore its part of the governemnt, whereas Airbus isn't (for the most part). So you think its illegal to grant funds to a company to make a plane/product for your specific use?