How real is NGX "in the air"?

[markadeane 274]

This discussion comes up often, (it seems once every 6-9 months on average!), here's my take on it.If you have a PMDG product and have learned how to operate it properly, and understand the systems, then you have a good chance of getting it down safely. The key things you have on your side are: - Knowing where the radios are and how to tune them to ask for help - Knowing how to operate the aircraft using the autopilot - Knowing how and when to operate the essential controls, gear, flaps, etcIf you ever found yourself in this fantasy situation, the smartest thing you could do would be to get vectors to a suitably equipped ILS approach and then autoland it. You probably know the systems well enough to do all this, but at the end of the day a joystick and throttle arrangement isn't adequate preparation for the handling nuances of the real thing. The tactile feedback, and (on Boeings) the whole control arrangment is completely different.My first level-D airliner sim experience showed me that I didn't know nearly as much about the handling as I thought I did in the first instance. I was able to operate the aircraft quite happily but my first two landings were absolute crappers. Once I had some advice on technique it improved to a point where I was told that the landing was 'pretty good', but in the often-discussed fantasy scenario, you only get one chance to do it right, and I'm betting you'd need a bit more practice than that!

[4116705510 4]

I'm not a pilot but I've flown a 777 simulator at the United Airlines Training Center at the AVSIM conference a number of years ago. Landing the real thing is easier than on the computer. The plane trims better, is easier to get stable on approach, and you feel the changes in attifude as well as see them on the gauges. But I would not have had that success without my PMDG planes or the Level D 767.Colin Ware

Have you tried the Captain Sim 767, its the best 767 on the market.

[damocles 1]

This discussion comes up often, (it seems once every 6-9 months on average!), here's my take on it.If you have a PMDG product and have learned how to operate it properly, and understand the systems, then you have a good chance of getting it down safely. The key things you have on your side are: - Knowing where the radios are and how to tune them to ask for help - Knowing how to operate the aircraft using the autopilot - Knowing how and when to operate the essential controls, gear, flaps, etcIf you ever found yourself in this fantasy situation, the smartest thing you could do would be to get vectors to a suitably equipped ILS approach and then autoland it. You probably know the systems well enough to do all this, but at the end of the day a joystick and throttle arrangement isn't adequate preparation for the handling nuances of the real thing. The tactile feedback, and (on Boeings) the whole control arrangment is completely different.My first level-D airliner sim experience showed me that I didn't know nearly as much about the handling as I thought I did in the first instance. I was able to operate the aircraft quite happily but my first two landings were absolute crappers. Once I had some advice on technique it improved to a point where I was told that the landing was 'pretty good', but in the often-discussed fantasy scenario, you only get one chance to do it right, and I'm betting you'd need a bit more practice than that!

There is an FSX 'I can fly the real thing' fantasy phenomenon which is totally disrespectful to real pilots who work hard and professionally at their job to make sure every flight is safe. Chris Farrell

[MrPlaneDriver 41]

[...]If you ever found yourself in this fantasy situation[...]

Oh fantasy... :( I dream with the day that I'd be in a 737 for example and the pilots would have a heart attack or something (I'm not saying that I'd like the pilots to die or pass out during the flight) and I would be the only one who knew how to operate the aircraft and would save the plane and the life of the other passengers and crew members. I know that the chances are incredibly low, but everybody can dream, right?:(

[damocles 1]

Yeah, and you'd probably crash because FSX is not based on reality.....nice fantasy though. We've all had the delusion.:smile:Chris Farrell

[mikea76 184]

Yeah, and you'd probably crash because FSX is not based on reality.....nice fantasy though. We've all had the delusion.:smile:Chris Farrell

You are SO negitive. I don't see why he would not be able to land the plane using the auto pilot. Nobody is saying just flying in FSX qualifies you to hop in a 737 full of passengers and take off. There is a major difference in having just enough knowledge from FSX to keep the plane from becoming a lawn dart long enough to turn on the autopilot and being a RW airline pilot that can handle and has been trained in all situations and can fly the plane smooth and safe.. BUT I do have to say while every flight simmer has dreamed of landing a real airliner No way IN HELL would I want to be in that scenerio in real life, Fear would make a hand landing even in perfect conditions highly unlikely to go well so auto land would have to be used. At first I posted that he might be able to hand fly a landing too but then I thought about it and the reason a hand flown landing would probably result in a crash even on a nice clear day is FEAR even if you could get used to the controls in time the fear of just being thrust into the situation and not having a experienced pilot there to guide you or take over would cause you to crash. Chris you seem to think that FSX is some horribly unrealistic arcade game and it is not, sure you can make it arcade like if you turn all the settings down and fly default planes but with good payware planes it's a pretty decent simulation. I too am one of the lucky ones that got to use a full motion simulator and I was able to land on my first try, was not perfect and I would not want to have been a passenger on it but I got it down first try and did better on the two other landings I got to do. But as I said above in a RW situation with no experienced help... very very unlikely that plane would have landed in one peice. and god forbid a engine failed or something like that the only question would be what part of the plane hit the ground first one thing I know He would have a better chance in a 737 than in a cessna that is for sure.

[NGXfanatic 85]

I agree that FSX is no substitute for the real thing, because a fixed base simulation like FSX cannot simulate the control forces and feel that you get in reality. I have read many reports from real life/LevelD sim pilots who say that real life aircraft can be more forgiving during hand flight, especially on finals or flare before touchdown because the pilot is feeling the forces acting on the controls, and also benefit from the much improved field of sight, in comparison to FSX. I find landing the PMDG 747 is smooth for a simulated model, and that it's behavior during final approach when hand flying seems to match the expected behavior of a heavy jet with 4 heavy main landing gears, but it can be very difficult to gauge the flare just right using consumer flight yokes and a pc.I believe if I had the opportunity to practice these maneuvers in a proper moving simulator, it would be so much more easier to grease the landing because of the cues the proper simulator/real life aircraft provides that FSX just cannot match. So I tend to agree with the reports that real life aircraft are easier to control, but with that said, someone with plenty of practice on FSX/FS9 can use their experience with the "game" to give them a valid edge over other students without such experience. Not to mention that RL captains have an extra set of eyes, ears and hands in the form of a copilot to assist them during ops (like ATC communications, adjusting MCP commands, reaching for the flaps/landing gear levers), tasks that us simmers have to do by ourselves.

[4116705510 4]

I hope that PMDG continues on with FSX even when Flight is released, its a platform thats been developed more than anything else, and has been made nearly permanant because of this

[MrKen 3]

I hope that PMDG continues on with FSX even when Flight is released, its a platform thats been developed more than anything else, and has been made nearly permanant because of this

I'm sure it'll keep going for quite a while after flight is out. If for no other reason, because so many people are hesitant to switch. Like anything else though, if it's addon friendly & is a legitimate upgrade from FSX it'll eventually take over. Yeah I know, that's a lot of ifs...

[marijn747berg 1]

When I was 11 (two years ago), I had the oppertunity to fly in a full motion simulator (Fokker 100), with the help of an instructor.It was quite a short session, only the landing. At first, he had his hands on the yoke, but after seeing my fly for a few minutes (with the skills I developed in FSX), he just let me land the plane by myself (successfully).That same day, I also got to fly in a real Cessna 172, which was weird the first few seconds, as you feel every bit of wind, turbulence etc etc, but after a while, again, my FSX 'experience' allowed me to relax and actually fly the plane.I'm not saying FSX is a substitute for actual flying, but it sure helped me that day!

[jcmontagne 1]

I have never tried a full motion simulator (or real airliner) but I'm now 25 hrs into my PPL trainingand I can surely say that flight simulation helps. Even though FSX flight models for light aircrafts such as the Cessna aren't that accurate, having a good understanding of all the controls and gaugesmakes a difference. As stated earlier, the "feel" (a hot summer afternoon is going to get quite bumpy...) is definitelywhat lacks the most with FSX.Another thing that helped me allot is flying online (IVAO for me) !If the fantasy situation of being the only one to land a pilotless 737 arose (I just wanted to say...we're all counting on you), a PMDG 737NGX flightsim experience would certainly help you set the aircraft up for autoland thanks to your understanding of the autoflight/FMS logic.As for manual landing...I couldn't say

[AirbusCG 52]

That's interesting,Where did you try the simulator and how much did it cost/time?Chris Farrell

Hi,I've been flying a real 737 Sim in Berlin last year.It was about 50€ for 1 hour (Normally it would cost about 170 if i remember correctly, but because we were there as VA and we got many guys who wanted to fly we got this discount. Also I think that we got a sponsor for that who payed a little money).From my knowledge I can say that you can learn how to land the airplane if the pilots aren't able to (whyever this might be), but that's it. For becoming an airlinepilot it's not good enough.Also I am about to become a glider pilot. In this point I can only repeat what I said above. FSX is good for general knowledge on the plane and how to operate the different systems, but not for practical training.

[cmpbellsjc 2,963]

BUT I do have to say while every flight simmer has dreamed of landing a real airliner No way IN HELL would I want to be in that scenerio in real life, Fear would make a hand landing even in perfect conditions highly unlikely to go well so auto land would have to be used.

I agree 100% with that. I think that a lot of us here, even those of us with real world light aircraft experience, would probably be sweating bullets if for some reason there was an emergency and we were called upon to bring an airliner in. However, I dont doubt that we would be able to successfully execute an autoland, but I sure as heck wouldn't want to attempt to land one manually with no prior experience in that a/c.

Oh fantasy... :( I dream with the day that I'd be in a 737 for example and the pilots would have a heart attack or something (I'm not saying that I'd like the pilots to die or pass out during the flight) and I would be the only one who knew how to operate the aircraft and would save the plane and the life of the other passengers and crew members. I know that the chances are incredibly low, but everybody can dream, right?:(

For your sake and everone elses I hope that it never happens.If for some reason it ever does and your headed for Rio, please dont attempt 02L or 02R at Santos Dumont or you will surely kill yourself and everyone else. :( Head to SBGL and at least give yourself a chance at survival. B) Sean Campbell

[WestAir 2,524]

Hey Guys,While I won't voice an opinion on the Flight Simmer landing a Real World Airliner debate, I will throw in what I hope to be an interesting perspective: Most of you have seen those extremely detailed realistic driving simulators and games. A lot of them simulate everything from slippage to ABS, and have amazing detail. If you met someone who had logged 1,500 hours on an ultra-realistic driving simulator but none in a real car, would you be comfortable letting them hop in your car and take it for a drive to the store? What about with children in the back seat?You can say apples and oranges, but I like the analogy.

[shafs 0]

I think your missing out not have any PMDG aircraft..I have all of them and i love that MD11 And i only fly PMDG aircraft. And as as getting the call up to the flightdeck we all dream of that. how does the story goes the they both have the bad curry and it all up to you. I just hope its not a airbus