Sign in to follow this  
phreddy

P8 Poseidon

Recommended Posts

Hi all,Great forums. I was just wondering if PMDG are considering doing an offshoot of the 737? The P3 Orion replacement - P8 Poseidon - would surely be a logical and interesting aircraft to quickly add on to. All it would take is a tweak of the existing flight model and graphical model surely? Would really make for a very versatile aircraft to 'muck about with' in FSX from our point of view. And given PMDG's attention to detail on the 737 and every other plane I reckon they'd do a damn fine job of any P8!.Just a thought :( Cheers,David

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

David,There's quite a lot that's different about that plane - it's got a different wing with different aerodynamics (it's a 900ER's wing on an 800's body plus it has raked wingtips vs. winglets), different engines etc. I'm sure the avionics are different and quite classified too. Perhaps we could do it as a visual model extension the way we did with the 747-8 and LCF, but it's highly unlikely we'd ever be able to fully model it just for lack of information about it's capabilities and performance.

Share this post


Link to post

PMDG have said in the past that they won't be doing military aircraft, although they might of course make an exception. There are a few repaints of various 737-800s kicking about as 'pseudo P-8s', including one on the Avsim file library I did a few weeks ago for the iFly NG.But such repaints are merely for fun, since the P-8 is a very different aircraft from the NGs, even though it was originally built on the normal NG line: It is exempt from ETOPS because has a different fuel tankage system with six extra fuel tanks (including a nitrogen inerting system on the centre tank), different engines from a normal CFM 56 (F108s), it has an air to air refueling capability, different cockpit avionics (not least of which is a multi-mission radar), an opening bomb bay with a rotating drop rack, missile pylons on the wings (and the associated avionics for that on the HUD), decoy launchers, several different sensors housed in fairing on the fuselage for all the MAD gear etc, different windows, different wingtips, is reinforced to be a bit tougher (which makes it heavier, so it will handle differently for sure). And these are just the things we know about, there are doubtless many other secret gizmos on the thing that would make it difficult to be sure you had created an accurate model of the thing, particularly where the avionics and flight handling capabilities were concerned, since much of that will be secret.Al

Share this post


Link to post

The P-8A is a highly modified, and classified variant of the 737... On top of the differences Ryan named it also has a forward and mid-position torpedo/missles bays (the forward one was the source of a lot of problems early in the test program). You will not see information on the avionics packages inside this bird for a very long time. Working on the Navy's other latest marvel the MH-60R the avionics are very complex, and would not be allowed to be simulated. I certaintly wouldn't put my job on the line, and a lot of other people would not either. I understand the hype and enthusiasm behind the aircraft. Believe me I would love to have a fully done B-2A, or some of the other aircraft like that. Unfortunately for national security reasons that will never be, and rightfully so. Sorry if the post is a little blunt.. If only you guys could see the mounds of paperwork, interviews, backround checks, and class material NDA's that must be signed before even getting near this stuff. So while the external would be done the interior could never be full completed. Most of this stuff will never come to light till decades after, and by then it won't even matter anymore. Sure someone will bring up their relationship with Boeing, but most likely the avionics are installed by a third party. Therefore not part of Boeings engineering material. Just wanted to put that out there though, and sorry for the rant.

Share this post


Link to post
The P-8A is a highly modified, and classified variant of the 737... On top of the differences Ryan named it also has a forward and mid-position torpedo/missles bays (the forward one was the source of a lot of problems early in the test program). You will not see information on the avionics packages inside this bird for a very long time. Working on the Navy's other latest marvel the MH-60R the avionics are very complex, and would not be allowed to be simulated. I certaintly wouldn't put my job on the line, and a lot of other people would not either. I understand the hype and enthusiasm behind the aircraft. Believe me I would love to have a fully done B-2A, or some of the other aircraft like that. Unfortunately for national security reasons that will never be, and rightfully so. Sorry if the post is a little blunt.. If only you guys could see the mounds of paperwork, interviews, backround checks, and class material NDA's that must be signed before even getting near this stuff. So while the external would be done the interior could never be full completed. Most of this stuff will never come to light till decades after, and by then it won't even matter anymore. Sure someone will bring up their relationship with Boeing, but most likely the avionics are installed by a third party. Therefore not part of Boeings engineering material. Just wanted to put that out there though, and sorry for the rant.
Other than the above, I sure would like to see a PMDG version of the P-8A Poseiden. Maybe VRS will do a joint-venture with PMDG - they were crazy enough to add shooting down airliners near Portland in their F-18/A tutorial. I haven't read anything about them getting a visit from Homeland Security or Seal Team Six for that little stunt.I think we should also bring FTX/Orbx into the picture and have a few 3rd country national nukes lurking about in the Pacific Northwest around Bangor then we can blast them outta the water with the Weapons addon. Just think of all the Missions that Sir Chock could come up with. Ray

Share this post


Link to post

I would love to see a visual model (it doesn't need to have the avionics, etc other than what is in a 737-700) of this aircraft...wedgetail.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
I would love to see a visual model (it doesn't need to have the avionics, etc other than what is in a 737-700) of this aircraft...
This will be a piece of cake for a simple repaint. It should be available mere hours after the paintkit is available.Ray

Share this post


Link to post

Unfortunately, there's no way a simple repaint would make a 737-700 look like the E-737 AEW&C, since without that big &@($* phased array MESA up on the top of the rear fuselage, it will just look like a C-40 in different colours.That big phased array incidentally, is why it has to have those two ventral fins on the bottom added to it, so it would handle properly with an engine out, because it interferes with the airflow to the vertical stabiliser, and Boeing had to alter the elevator probes a tiny bit as well because of that too, because it messes around with the airflow to those as well.You are right though, it would be cool to have a model of it, even without the avionics. Still, when CS get their old banger 737-200 out, we can easily knock up paint jobs for T43s and MP surveiller variants of that.Al

Share this post


Link to post
David,There's quite a lot that's different about that plane - it's got a different wing with different aerodynamics (it's a 900ER's wing on an 800's body plus it has raked wingtips vs. winglets), different engines etc. I'm sure the avionics are different and quite classified too. Perhaps we could do it as a visual model extension the way we did with the 747-8 and LCF, but it's highly unlikely we'd ever be able to fully model it just for lack of information about it's capabilities and performance.
Hi Ryan,Yes I guessed that there probably would be a fair difference. There is no doubt a fair bit of guesswork would have to go into it... The only info you'd be able to get would be that gleaned from various Aviation Mag articles as they come to hand. Which isn't a lot! Certainly not yet. Even so, a visual model would be still pretty good. As long as most people didn't expect to much (how could you if it was all classified)? The Australian Wedgetail that has been mentioned would be probably easier to model. Once can always hope that someone tries to emulate the variants eventually.Regards,David
Still, when CS get their old banger 737-200 out, we can easily knock up paint jobs for T43s and MP surveiller variants of that.Al
Nothing like a good "...knock up ... Job " :( David
I would love to see a visual model (it doesn't need to have the avionics, etc other than what is in a 737-700) of this aircraft...wedgetail.jpg
Nice Pic.Just wondering what the round ball thingy is hanging off the back bottom of the tail (back from the tailskid?). Is it some form of LLTV device?David

Share this post


Link to post
This will be a piece of cake for a simple repaint. It should be available mere hours after the paintkit is available.Ray
The paint itself can be done, but without a model that includes the radar array on the roof of the aircraft, it wouldn't be the same...

Share this post


Link to post
I would love to see a visual model (it doesn't need to have the avionics, etc other than what is in a 737-700) of this aircraft...wedgetail.jpg
+1. As with the P-8, it could just be a visual model add-on (such as the 747-8 and LCF), where only the exterior model is changed.

Share this post


Link to post
Just wondering what the round ball thingy is hanging off the back bottom of the tail (back from the tailskid?). Is it some form of LLTV device?David
Good pictures of it, including that rear end device:http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/sang_h_chang/e-737_wedgetail/index.phpAl

Share this post


Link to post
Good pictures of it, including that rear end device:http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/sang_h_chang/e-737_wedgetail/index.phpAl
It is a FLIR (Forward Looking Infra Red) camera with a laser for guided missles. I recognize the warning stickers from the side of ours (although on the H-60 we use a different FLIR unit). Weird that they would mount it on the tail of the aircraft, but at altitude I guess their view is not as obstructed. Plus they are moving at a higher rate of speed.

Share this post


Link to post
The P-8A is a highly modified, and classified variant of the 737... On top of the differences Ryan named it also has a forward and mid-position torpedo/missles bays (the forward one was the source of a lot of problems early in the test program). You will not see information on the avionics packages inside this bird for a very long time. Working on the Navy's other latest marvel the MH-60R the avionics are very complex, and would not be allowed to be simulated. I certaintly wouldn't put my job on the line, and a lot of other people would not either. I understand the hype and enthusiasm behind the aircraft. Believe me I would love to have a fully done B-2A, or some of the other aircraft like that. Unfortunately for national security reasons that will never be, and rightfully so. Sorry if the post is a little blunt.. If only you guys could see the mounds of paperwork, interviews, backround checks, and class material NDA's that must be signed before even getting near this stuff. So while the external would be done the interior could never be full completed. Most of this stuff will never come to light till decades after, and by then it won't even matter anymore. Sure someone will bring up their relationship with Boeing, but most likely the avionics are installed by a third party. Therefore not part of Boeings engineering material. Just wanted to put that out there though, and sorry for the rant.
Sorry. its not as "Double secret agent" stuff as you make it out to be. The Mission systems gear comes out of my group at GEAS. Boeing installs the gear, not some super secret third party. Boeing's P8 Demo trailer was here last month, and while not showing heavy details on the inner workings, there's a flyable cockpit in it (original UA 737, shaved to fit in the trailer and decked out with gear from Flight Deck Solutions), single projector and an interesting representation of the HUD. Some of the rear positions are mocked up with demonstrator gear as well.Maybe Tabs can poke the Indian Navy for info when they get their P8I's (Former Aviation Structural Mechanic (AW) A6's / EA-6B's NAS Whidbey AIMD) :)

Share this post


Link to post
It is a FLIR (Forward Looking Infra Red)
Surely sticking it on the tail would make it a BLIR :LMAO:With regard to the difficulties of simulating a P-8, I think the point Roadburner was making is that there are difficulties in getting the clearance to simulate such things even if you know a lot about what they do, or even if you are just taking an educated guess, and to do so might sour the relationship PMDG has with Boeing.I was once asked if I had signed the UK's Official Secrets Act when simply producing a bit of work relating to the signage on a military aircraft radar. That signage made no mention of the radar's capabilities at all, it was just a warning sticker about possible hazards from radiation emissions that you often find on aeroplanes. You can imagine my reaction: LOL a top secret sticker? Theoretically, that means I could not tell you what it said on that sticker even though anyone who saw the aeroplane it was on at an airshow would be able to read it.As it turned out, I had actually already signed the Official Secrets Act because of having done some stuff for RN Harrier Jump Jets at Fairey Engineering some years before, so I was okay to do it, but it was incredibly paranoid and rather silly that they required that signature simply for a sign that would be stuck on the nose of the aeroplane for all to see.Al

Share this post


Link to post
Sorry. its not as "Double secret agent" stuff as you make it out to be. The Mission systems gear comes out of my group at GEAS. Boeing installs the gear, not some super secret third party.(Former Aviation Structural Mechanic (AW) A6's / EA-6B's NAS Whidbey AIMD) :)
Being prior Navy then you should be well versed in the procedures, and repricutions on releasing/reproducting/simulating classified material. Make fun if you will, but I take operational security pretty seriously. Taking people for a tour around the aircraft, or putting them in a simulator is a completely different deal from disclosing systems operations/capabilities which would be required to make it a true simulation. I have seen people go to jail over this stuff. It is certaintly no fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Taking people for a tour around the aircraft, or putting them in a simulator is a completely different deal from disclosing systems operations/capabilities which would be required to make it a true simulation.
Just how would you propose they could make this a "True Simulation"? They aren't going to simulate the systems in the back, FSX isn't capable, and even if it was you would have to wait for the PMDG Akula Class simulator to have something to hunt out there in the water. So what's left? Range? Can pretty much figure that out from the size of the aux tanks and known fuel burn. Performance of the wing? Well you have another mixed fuselage / wing bird like the 3 C40 variants (worked on that design as well...at least the A model) not that hard to get it close.In the end its another commercial derivative aircraft. There's nothing fancy up front that you can model that would be of any value in FSX to anyone. You're not going to hunt subs or whales or even russian trawlers with it. Deploy sonobouys? Not likely Deploy the MAD boom? I guess they could model a trailing wire if it made people feel better. You're just going to burn holes in the sky flying around in a Haze Grey 737. In the end, you would have a basic repaint of a 737....Get over your secret squirrel stuff already......Nobody is asking for multiplayer, Guy in the back, simulation of the systems models.Have fun changing elastomeric bearings.......

Share this post


Link to post

Is it my imagination, or are tempers fraying here and elsewhere at my beloved AVSIM? Phase of the moon? Advent of 2012? Lack of certain payware aircraft? What?

Share this post


Link to post

I would like to see a C-40 but again, i dont quite know what the differences are avionics and if any difference in the wings. But a C-40 would be neat.

Share this post


Link to post
and even if it was you would have to wait for the PMDG Akula Class simulator to have something to hunt out there in the water.
Well, now that you mention it, there was this thing I was working on in FSDS, oh look, it's an Akula....Submarine.jpgAl

Share this post


Link to post
Well, now that you mention it, there was this thing I was working on in FSDS, oh look, it's an Akula....Submarine.jpgAl
ROFL!!!! Awesome....Is it in beta Yet? What Livery is it coming with? How much is it? :) :) Why aren't you doing an FS9 version :(

Share this post


Link to post
ROFL!!!! Awesome....Is it in beta Yet?
Unfortunately, I have had a 51 percent share of me bought by the Vepr shipyard, and they require 120 days to approve...oh no, wait a minute, that joke has already been tried somewhere, hasn't it?Fascinating sub fact for all you trivia fans: Although that gets called the Akula in the west, the much larger 'typhoon' class is what the Russians actually call an Akula (Shark). What NATO calls the Akula, is in fact the Project 971, sometimes called the Vepr Class in Russia because of one of them being named that, other times being called the Gepard Class, because a later variant was named that. If you add CS Weapon and the radar from something like the Wilco Harrier to your 737, it is actually be possible to hunt a sub in FSX and engage it as well, so long as it is a mission object (although actually having tried it with my iFly NG painted up as a P-8, I can tell you that it is bloody hard to hit ships with that CS Weapon's missiles, because locking stuff up is pretty hard).So it actually isn't completely beyond the realms of possibility to make a 'working' P-8 in FSX, although of course all the launch parameters and such would largely be a complete blag, and nothing like the real thing.Al

Share this post


Link to post

Now that is a pretty cool looking sub! Now if only we had something with torpedos to shoot at it..

Share this post


Link to post
it would be coolfranzloew02.jpg
Holy Cow, Batman. This place is getting weird. Ruskie Nukes, Turkish Gray Matters, Armed Aussies, paranoid duds. Maybe PMDG needs to revisit their release schedule. I hear a new version of Zurich is on its way, maybe that will keep us occupied for a day or so.Ray

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this