And here

Martin, Skyline..Thanks for your update... gives a good overview what can or cannot!

Was this done using Dial-up or broadband?barry

Sounds very interesting.I would tend to think that once these kind of software will rely on a P2P type of network (no central server), it will be easier to transition many users to what looks like better capabilities that the established system, as well as it will allow greater possibilities in NOT preventing third party vendors to enhance the solution with add-ons to the system. Because in its current form, being closed to the outside vendors, the online ATC is limited to the time and capabilities of the ones who control it (which they have proven to be exceptional so far though!)Is this non-sense?

@Barry: The software itself is of course compatible with both dial-up and broadband. In fact the above user used a dialup (ISDN) to connect.@Jeanluc: The pilot client uses both P2P and central server. It connects to a central server network (or better multiple server network), but the software establishes a direct P2P connection to the other pilots within range. Thats why the smooth display of other aircraft is possible even when using a dialup connection.But I must admit I maybe didnt understand what else you mean in your post, maybe you could explain it to me, or was it really non-sense :-hahGreetzLars

Hello Jean-Luc,the whole scenario is a little bit more complicated that it might look out from a pilots view. Most of all we need to remember that a network as a whole thing like VATSIM is, is based entirely on the donation of server and bandwith resources. All this is free, and therefore it is perfectly valid IMHO that those who donate these resources want to determine what kind of operation is allowed on the servers and what is not.If you take VATSIM as an example any developer interested in serious software development work for VATSIM may contact Richard Critz for details on how to get access to the documents describing the network interface. Later on the code needs to get reviewed before it can be approved for use with the network. This way it is ensured that software will not cause unnecessary bandwith consumption.Yours,Martin Georg/EDDFVACC-SAG PR & Events Coordinator *** mailto:[email protected]http://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...r=SAG01&a=a.jpg

Thank you for the update Martin. This is roughly what I knew: it is a free service which can be served only with free software, and it is locked to any third party vendor without the approval, which is understandably owned and given by the founders of course.What I mentioned is something which would not need a central server and bandwidth, in having any client providing the bandwidth from his connection, then allowing any third party vendor, free and for a fee, to offer services and software. I think, as in any venture, that competition, and free market, are the keys to innovation for the sole enjoyment of the users.I'm not saying that what is offered is poor, far from it, but that it may be further enhanced and pushed to its limit with competition (look how each aircraft release is nearly pushing the envelop thanks to competition).Now, altough free, the actual infrastructure, if open to the payware software, it would not only allow to have a diversity, but also it would allow to finance the infrastructure if the usage of it is licensed for example. It would also allow to pay for the marketing needed to "recruit" more pilots. It would also open the gate to unique knowledge only a few developpers have. I'm thinking about weather, TCAS for example, for which there are some developpers at the cutting edge of these technologies, but they are only offering access to this through their payware products. This could benefit VATSIM as well...What do you think? why is VATSIM so closed to payware? am I wrong in saying this?

Hi,FLIGHTPROJECT (=FPI) decided to provide >>>in the future;) ) an SDK to use an own developed DLL which works like FSUIPC and is delivered with ATOC as FREEWARE.As far as I know FPI is the only developer which has an full functionable TCAS, and this for free. => http://www.flightproject.net/download/file...ipi_tcas_en.pdfcya

>As far as I know FPI is the only developer which has an full >functionable TCAS, and this for freeWhat do you mean by 'full functional' as compared to less than full functional ?Regards.Ernie.

After seeing the PDF I understand that as "FPI has a TCASII for free". Since payware is possible right now in all SB based networks.Jos

Hi Ernie,I think fully functional means, the TCAS provides you with traffic, and colision alerts and also gives climb or descend advisories depending on the situation. So it not only gives everytime descend or everytime climb advisory!A second thing to compare "fully" and "partly functional" is that the program uses the informations directly from the network system without a thrid program converting the information like aibridge did (which was btw a real nice program).And third the most important thing is "free TCASII".

100 points ;)sorry, next time I will get more in detail :-hah cu

Hallo Martin,We both have seen the presentation of the work in progress of Joel's SQ3. He claimed that the fluid should be much improved, but demonstration of the software has shown that in fact it is still very far from fluid. Perhaps we should not discourage freeware developers from trying to improve our network by introduction of superior tools to use. All it takes is just a good will. I know we all owe it to Joel for creating the SB in the first place but if they could join forces that would definately not hurt.Proud VATSIM memberDom

----CUT----> but if they could join forces that would>definately not hurt.Hello all,I'm italian, and as most people here I fly on IVAO, where it is possible to find many controllers online at italian airports.A few times speaking with the local IVAO staff I told them my opinion, that our hobby is currently suffering from the lack of a common environment to fly online, doesn't matter if subdivided in many "flavors", just like the IRC protocol, that is in use in so many different networks, and all can be accessed by the same clients, and there are many of them the user can choose.My opinion is that if the online flying networks managers don't agree on a common and published protocol,using an open source approach, in a few years there will be no online flying anymore, due to the lack of software.RegardsFrancesco Romeo

>@Barry: The software itself is of course compatible with both>dial-up and broadband. In fact the above user used a dialup>(ISDN) to connect.The reason I asked the question about whther the formation flying picture was done using dial-up --is because when I have used VATSIM in the past, I have noticed other aircraft have a severe "lag" problem -- I have always blamed this on my dialup connection..Barry