The values are not excactly the same as what? We are talking about MAX values here. They should be called 'Do not exceed limits' but that takes up too much room on the forms. It is silly to think of them as exact or even accurate. If your MTOW is 65,300Kg, are you going to crash and burn if you attempt to take off at 65,301kg ? No, of course not. But you risk losing your job when your airline finds out. Why? Because you were stupid! You exceeded a limit you were told not to exceed, and if you are willing to do one stupid thing, you will probably do others.By their definition, 'Do not exceed limits' can not be exact or even accurate. Somebody thought about it and said "I think that is the safe limit to use" and somebody else will come along tomorrow with a different value and say "I think that is the safe limit to use - in this situation". Exceeding such a limit increases risk but that is sometimes necessary to mitigate other risks. As they say, Manouver G limits are only applicable to airframes that you expect to use again.

LOOOOL!Am i supposed to get mad and answer with arrogance.....not my personality.To others: coming from a former student who did preparatory classes for entrance to french Grandes Écoles and hold a European ATPL i know what i'm talking about and i don't think you can give me any lesson about physics my friend! Furthermore posting thousands times doesn't mean that what you say has any value alright. Mr Moulin on the post right under yours has a perfect answer for your post: i have nothing more to say. And if you don't like my topic just skip it! Pretty simple man! Next time, step back and let the grown up talk.CheersPS: No hate at all, i'm just trying to share what i have with others because this PMDG forum DID A LOT FOR ME !

LOOOOL!Am i supposed to get mad and answer with arrogance.....not my personality.To others: coming from a former student who did preparatory classes for entrance to french Grandes Écoles and hold a European ATPL i know what i'm talking about and i don't think you can give me any lesson about physics my friend! Furthermore posting thousands times doesn't mean that what you say has any value alright. Mr Moulin on the post right under yours has a perfect answer for your post: i have nothing more to say. And if you don't like my topic just skip it! Pretty simple man! Next time, step back and let the grown up talk.CheersPS: No hate at all, i'm just trying to share what i have with others because this PMDG forum DID A LOT FOR ME !

What are you getting so excited about and why are you starting personal attacks? Where I have ever said 'I have enough much time on my hands that I can write lots of posts so therefore I must be right?'. How does my post count give me any more credibility then your claims to metriculation studies or an ATPL? The terms 'exact' and 'accurate' have specific meanings which are important to pilots and which are not applicable in this situation for the reasons I have stated. If you think anything I have said is inaccurate, incorrect or incomplete, I would welcome your opinion along with your reasoning as that would help me more learn a bit more.P.S. I am qualified to give lessons in physics and have been paid to do so in the past. Does that impress you?P.P.S. [Personal attack with humour warning]Grown ups generally tolerate childish behaviour. Children generally don't.[/PAWHW]

I hate arguing when things are obvious. Just read again Charles Moulin's post. I did not make any attacks, matter fact i don't need to. Your post sounded very aggressive: thats why i was a bit rude in my post. Next time if you want to have a discussion with me about aviation i suggest you to be more diplomatist (don't know if this is even correct).

Odd. You thought my earlier posts were aggressive but you dont think your attacks were personal? Suggesting that I was relying on my post count for authority, or that I should stay quiet when the grown-ups were talking is generally considered personal.So. How does telling us that you attempted to go to university make what you say about max take off weights any more relevant? I assume you failed the entrance exams or you would have said you had passed them and not just prepared for them. And why wait two days before you mention that you have a pilots license? Does it change what you have said earlier? Does it answer any of the questions you were asked? Do you think it makes you seem more important? Did you even think to say "While studying for my ATPL in <name of school>, we were taught that <interesting tidbit>..."? No. You simply said "I hold a European ATPL i know what i'm talking about..."Well my young friend, I do not have an ATPL, but I can smell Bovine Scatology from a considerable distance, and you are full of it.In case you haven't worked it out yet, this post was both aggressive and on limits of personal (i.e. I have commented on what you have actually said here, but not speculated beyond that). For future reference, if someone asks you where you came up with some facts, don't try to diss them. In this case, had you simply said "these are the figures I extracted from the PMDG config files" you would have got thanks and respect. Now, unfortunately, the next time you come up with something interesting, anybody remembering this thread is going to be sceptical.

Odd. You thought my earlier posts were aggressive but you dont think your attacks were personal? Suggesting that I was relying on my post count for authority, or that I should stay quiet when the grown-ups were talking is generally considered personal.So. How does telling us that you attempted to go to university make what you say about max take off weights any more relevant? I assume you failed the entrance exams or you would have said you had passed them and not just prepared for them. And why wait two days before you mention that you have a pilots license? Does it change what you have said earlier? Does it answer any of the questions you were asked? Do you think it makes you seem more important? Did you even think to say "While studying for my ATPL in <name of school>, we were taught that <interesting tidbit>..."? No. You simply said "I hold a European ATPL i know what i'm talking about..."Well my young friend, I do not have an ATPL, but I can smell Bovine Scatology from a considerable distance, and you are full of it.In case you haven't worked it out yet, this post was both aggressive and on limits of personal (i.e. I have commented on what you have actually said here, but not speculated beyond that). For future reference, if someone asks you where you came up with some facts, don't try to diss them. In this case, had you simply said "these are the figures I extracted from the PMDG config files" you would have got thanks and respect. Now, unfortunately, the next time you come up with something interesting, anybody remembering this thread is going to be sceptical.

HaHaHa ! very funny, aggressivity won't help you at all. Let me help you alright? Just google this : Classes prepatatoires aux grandes ecoles. And before you come back here make sure you know what this really means. It does not exist in the US, and its a french exception: i doubt you know about it, but i mean you never know. But considering what you wrote previously i can guarantee that you are talking without knowing a single thing about these studies. Now you want me to justify myself about these values, you know what i would do that with a big pleasure but only if you become respectful and if you calm down a bit. You may have a communication problem, i don't know. You could put it down like this: Kaman, i'm a bit skeptical about your post and these values, so can you explain where they come from in order to clear up misunderstandings....etc? this sounds more gentle don't you think so? Many people read this topic answered to it and even converted the values. I can't believe it! I posted something without no anger and a guy show up trying to be rude and give me some lessons !!!!! From now on, i will just not answer you anymore. I'm not here to have some trouble with anybody, just share my passion with others and from time to time contribute to this sim community: thats it.Cheers

this post makes me laugh

this post makes me laugh

yeah, PMDG customers gotta have something to laugh to. lol

HaHaHa ! very funny, aggressivity won't help you at all. Let me help you alright? Just google this : Classes prepatatoires aux grandes ecoles. And before you come back here make sure you know what this really means. It does not exist in the US, and its a french exception: i doubt you know about it, but i mean you never know. But considering what you wrote previously i can guarantee that you are talking without knowing a single thing about these studies. Now you want me to justify myself about these values, you know what i would do that with a big pleasure but only if you become respectful and if you calm down a bit. You may have a communication problem, i don't know. You could put it down like this: Kaman, i'm a bit skeptical about your post and these values, so can you explain where they come from in order to clear up misunderstandings....etc? this sounds more gentle don't you think so? Many people read this topic answered to it and even converted the values. I can't believe it! I posted something without no anger and a guy show up trying to be rude and give me some lessons !!!!! From now on, i will just not answer you anymore. I'm not here to have some trouble with anybody, just share my passion with others and from time to time contribute to this sim community: thats it.Cheers

This post made me laugh too. Do you think I should have asked you a polite question such as "Can you tell us what these figures are and where you got them?" Oh wait, I already did.While I am sure there are some Americans who might not know what Grandes Ecole are (and there is no reason why they should know it by that name), I am equally sure that there are many more that do, since they run a similar system in the States. That said, I am not sure why you are denegrating Americans, since they have not done anything to offend you and you seem to know as little about their educational system as you think they know about yours. I am Irish by the way and for reasons far to boring to mention, I know a little bit about both American, French, Irish and a few other educational systems.[For anybody not sure what we are talking about, think elite Universitys outside (or along side) the state system - entry is by passing metriculation exams or being rich - or both]. In the states, Harvard, Yale, MIT, etc. In Britian, Oxford and Cambridge. Even in Ireland we have Trinity. The French ones are not famous outside their own country, and are typically much smaller.]None of which really matters since you didn't get in to a Grandes Ecole, did you?

[For anybody not sure what we are talking about, think elite Universitys outside (or along side) the state system - entry is by passing metriculation exams or being rich - or both]. In the states, Harvard, Yale, MIT, etc. In Britian, Oxford and Cambridge. Even in Ireland we have Trinity. The French ones are not famous outside their own country, and are typically much smaller.]

Seriously? The Sorbonne?

The values are not excactly the same as what? We are talking about MAX values here. They should be called 'Do not exceed limits' but that takes up too much room on the forms. It is silly to think of them as exact or even accurate. If your MTOW is 65,300Kg, are you going to crash and burn if you attempt to take off at 65,301kg ? No, of course not. But you risk losing your job when your airline finds out. Why? Because you were stupid! You exceeded a limit you were told not to exceed, and if you are willing to do one stupid thing, you will probably do others.By their definition, 'Do not exceed limits' can not be exact or even accurate. Somebody thought about it and said "I think that is the safe limit to use" and somebody else will come along tomorrow with a different value and say "I think that is the safe limit to use - in this situation". Exceeding such a limit increases risk but that is sometimes necessary to mitigate other risks. As they say, Manouver G limits are only applicable to airframes that you expect to use again.

Who cares!. The bloke's just trying to give some of us a chopout. Use the figures if you want, if not don't use them. Simple.

Howdy.May I throw some wood to the fire? What I am trying to understand is what does PMDG use? Like I said in one of my post I compared PMDGs FCOM v1, Boeing and our company AFM and those weights are not the same. Most of weights shown in bakaman's post are different from PMDG and our company certified weights, but those weight limits we use are Boeing approved. I say more, Boeing instructed us to use Boeing's weight limits. I am just trying to understand how did bakaman figure out those weights he posted and why those are accurate but our company and Boeings are not (or at least different)? I could not find any links to those weights in PMDG manual. How does bakaman knows those weights are correct and those are what PMDG uses? I am not trying to argue or say that bakaman did something wrong, he did good job. If those weights he posted is what PMDG uses I will be using them. I am just one of those who needs to get right numbers. Thanks and respect to bakaman what he did.

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Edited November 24, 201114 yr by Dicko

Who cares!. The bloke's just trying to give some of us a chopout. Use the figures if you want, if not don't use them. Simple.

thats right sir !

Howdy.May I throw some wood to the fire? What I am trying to understand is what does PMDG use? Like I said in one of my post I compared PMDGs FCOM v1, Boeing and our company AFM and those weights are not the same. Most of weights shown in bakaman's post are different from PMDG and our company certified weights, but those weight limits we use are Boeing approved. I say more, Boeing instructed us to use Boeing's weight limits. I am just trying to understand how did bakaman figure out those weights he posted and why those are accurate but our company and Boeings are not (or at least different)? I could not find any links to those weights in PMDG manual. How does bakaman knows those weights are correct and those are what PMDG uses? I am not trying to argue or say that bakaman did something wrong, he did good job. If those weights he posted is what PMDG uses I will be using them. I am just one of those who needs to get right numbers.Thanks and respect to bakaman what he did.

thanks

Seriously? The Sorbonne?

Sorry - brain fade...

Hi Guys,As A loyal PMDG supporter,this type of post demonstates the worst sort of behaviour which turns off a lot of customers from posting even simple questions.To the original poster ,thanks for the work however you must be prepared to be a little more humble at times!I will now quit this forum .