You may have "a reasonably good idea" of what the current Alpha of Flight is like. The released product could end up containing quite a bit more content. We just don't know.

Usually, once a product has hit the beta stage, all the features and functionality that the finished product will have is contained in the package, and it is strictly for testing purposes. You don't see major content and feature additions, changes, or removals in beta simply because it often requires the testing protocols to begin all over again.Although you are right to say that nobody knows for certain what the final iteration of MS Flight will look like when it is made public, 99 times out of 100 a Microsoft beta which has been made available to the public (by invitation or by open enrollment) is actually "release-candidate" level. Of course, I also thought that Microsoft's most likely course of action with MS Flight could never have been to release a "Hawaii-only", 2-planes-only entertainment game, so who the hell knows what Microsoft will do next.Chances are, the addon scenery items and airplanes - if they even exist yet - will be in a separate development program with separate testing schedules. It is likely that the beta testers are seeing the content that will be released to the public when the time comes.For better or worse.-Greg

I've done my share of beta testing, so I know how this works, and it is different for every design team.Beta testing often begins before a product is even considered to have reached Beta state. In the initial NDA (the one that anyone who followed the Flight beta program application saw), it was stated that Flight was currently at Alpha ... not Beta.MS has stated that Flight is planned to be released this Spring. But not every MS has been released when it was initially planned to be released.

As it turns out, you are all correct. MS Flight will be a dog xxxxx. We're all doomed.

As it turns out, you are all correct. MS Flight will be a dog xxxxx. We're all doomed.

:( :(

And the beta testers who have supposedly confirmed things, are ONLY the beta testers who don't have enough character to keep their word, so why would I believe what they say?

Also known as the genetic fallacy. I believe what they say because it is consistent with everything Microsoft has already told us themselves.

You may have "a reasonably good idea" of what the current Alpha of Flight is like. The released product could end up containing quite a bit more content. We just don't know.

We do know, because Microsoft has already made those details public. You're in denial if you think the beta is just a stripped down alpha build.

Also known as the genetic fallacy. I believe what they say because it is consistent with everything Microsoft has already told us themselves.

I took logic in college, so don't try to dazzle me with your fallacies. Whenever I'm presented with any information about something that I have a personal interest in (be it politics, or PC games), I'm ALWAYS going to consider the source. Any logical person would. I take a person at their word ... until a person breaks their word.Just because what a person says is consistent with what Microsoft has stated, it doesn't mean that they are necessarily telling the whole truth. One early beta tester who broke the NDA, stated that the gauges didn't work in the aircraft, and that the weather never changes "it is always sunny in Hawaii." At the time, those allegations didn't contradict anything that MS had released about Flight, but we have since learned that neither one of those allegations were true.

We do know, because Microsoft has already made those details public. You're in denial if you think the beta is just a stripped down alpha build.

An Alpha build (which, as far I know, is all that we've seen) is the first phase of software testing for a new product, and mostly to test the stability of the software. It is not uncommon for new features to be added and tested during the Alpha build. "Beta Testing" is often used as a general label, even before the software had reached its Beta Build.I'm not in denial, any more than you are. You're in denial that Flight could conceivably become FSXI. I happen to believe that there's still a chance this could happen,I'm being optimistic, based on the facts I have (not the guesses, or suspect allegations). You're also assuming that I don't know more about Flight than you do.

Edited January 11, 201214 yr by Arwen

How Flight can become next FSX if it has not whole world modeled?

You're in denial that Flight could conceivably become FSXI

Conceivably, Flight could become anything, even a pile of 1s and 0s on the compost heap of failed projects.

I'm being optimistic, based on the facts I have

There are no facts except that at the moment Flight is an arcade game. You (and I) are being hopeful Flight will evelove into something resembling what we would like FSXI to have been, because we're biased due to the enjoyment of our flight simulation hobby.

How Flight can become next FSX if it has not whole world modeled?

If and when MS decides to backtrack and put the whole world they took out, back in (plus a long list of other stuff they also took out like ATC, AI, Airliners, etc., etc.).Cheers,- jahman.

Edited January 11, 201214 yr by jahman

How Flight can become next FSX if it has not whole world modeled?

Easy ... the rest of the world will be released as DLC, one region at a time.

I took logic in college, so don't try to dazzle me with your fallacies. Whenever I'm presented with any information about something that I have a personal interest in (be it politics, or PC games), I'm ALWAYS going to consider the source. Any logical person would.

A logical person would also know that doubting what appears to be valid information just because you don't like the source it's coming from is illogical.

Just because what a person says is consistent with what Microsoft has stated, it doesn't mean that they are necessarily telling the whole truth.

It doesn't mean they're necessarily lying, either, and when their reports confirm information that has already been made public through official channels then the chance that they're lying becomes vanishingly small. Microsoft has said, and the beta testers have confirmed, that Flight will feature exactly one aircraft (two, if you connect to Windows Live) and one land mass (Hawaii's "Big Island"), and that if you want anything else then get out your credit card. Microsoft has also said, and the beta testers have confirmed, that it will feature a simplified interface to make it easier for casual gamers to play.If you think any of that's going to change between now and launch then I'd like to invite you to join the rest of us here in the real world.

An Alpha build (which, as far I know, is all that we've seen) is the first phase of software testing for a new product, and mostly to test the stability of the software. It is not uncommon for new features to be added and tested during the Alpha build. "Beta Testing" is often used as a general label, even before the software had reached its Beta Build.

I agree that "alpha" and "beta" can sometimes be nebulous terms, but when a company launches a public beta, it's because they're late in the development cycle, features are frozen, and they want to do one final round of bug squashing and compatibility testing before launch.

I'm not in denial, any more than you are. You're in denial that Flight could conceivably become FSXI. I happen to believe that there's still a chance this could happen,I'm being optimistic, based on the facts I have (not the guesses, or suspect allegations).

In other words, you're in denial.

Easy ... the rest of the world will be released as DLC, one region at a time.

No it won't. Microsoft has already said they have no plans to develop global scenery and will instead focus on smaller, more detailed regions (like Hawaii).I'm sorry, but Flight isn't the sim you're looking for.

No it won't. Microsoft has already said they have no plans to develop global scenery and will instead focus on smaller, more detailed regions (like Hawaii).I'm sorry, but Flight isn't the sim you're looking for.

Here is the last press released from MS, please show me where they say it will be Hawaii ONLY, just show me..January 4^th, 2012 – Microsoft Flight Takes to the SkiesToday, Microsoft Studios premiered Microsoft Flight, a PC game that lets players jump into the challenge, fun, and freedom of flight. Microsoft Flight will be available as a free download this spring, giving players the freedom to fly the skies over the beautiful Big Island of Hawaii, complete a variety of exciting missions, test their skills in flying challenges, or find hidden aerocaches on the island. In Microsoft Flight, players view the world from above in a visually stunning and realistic representation of the earth, complete with region-specific weather patterns, foliage, terrain and landmarks. Players can choose to take the helm using highly rendered, accurate cockpits and authentic piloting procedures, or simply use their mouse and keyboard to control the plane in an exterior view. More experienced players can tailor the flight controls to match their skill level, making Microsoft Flight easy for beginners while still challenging for the most accomplished PC pilots. “Many people dream of flying, but few have the chance to experience the fun of exploring the world from above. Microsoft Flight provides players the opportunity to explore that curiosity and interest,” said Joshua Howard, executive producer of Microsoft Flight. “Aviation can be incredibly technical, but we’ve taken great care to build an experience that makes taking to the skies thrilling and accessible for everyone.” Start Exploring For Free After downloading Microsoft Flight for free, players can jump into hours of exciting gameplay on the Big Island of Hawaii. In addition, players who sign in to their Games for Windows – LIVE account automatically receive additional free content, including the legendary Boeing Stearman plane, supplementary missions, and access to Achievements and an Online Pilot Profile. Those looking to deepen their experience can purchase and download additional content that adds new aircraft, regions and customization options. The frequently released new content for Microsoft Flight includes daily aerocache challenges and updates that make every flight unique and fun. Be the First to Fly the Definitive Light Sport Aircraft ICON A5 Microsoft Studios worked with the personal airplane manufacturing team at ICON Aircraft to give aviation fans the exclusive opportunity to fly the all-new ICON A5 before real-world production starts at the end of 2012. Designed by the world-class aeronautical engineers behind the Voyager spaceship, X-Prize winning SpaceShipOne, and Virgin Galatic’s SpaceShipTwo, the ICON A5 is the “jet ski for the skies,” a high-wing amphibious monoplane with a carbon fiber airframe and a comfortable, automobile-inspired cockpit with space for two. The ICON A5 will be the first aircraft available to players for free in Microsoft Flight. “ICON Aircraft and Microsoft Flight both share the goal of making the fun of flying accessible to everyone who’s ever dreamed about it. ICON does this by fusing world-class product design with the very best engineering, and Microsoft by combining the excitement of a great gaming experience with the authenticity of a top notch flight simulator,” said ICON Aircraft CEO Kirk Hawkins. Be the First to Experience Microsoft Flight Today the team behind Microsoft Flight released an exclusive video that features all-new footage of Microsoft Flight. To view it, click on the 'Video' tab. Additionally, sign-ups for beta are still open! Be among the first to try Microsoft Flight by applying for the closed beta at:https://connect.microsoft.com/site1134/InvitationUse.aspx?ProgramID=6087&InvitationID=FLY-BRQX-BXTB. The voyage continues at this year’s Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas from January 10 – 13. Those that attend will have the chance to play Microsoft Flight before it releases this spring at the Microsoft booth, located in the Central Hall.

I'ld find it interesting to find out - what and how many hardcore addons - the people on either side of this discussion have currently installed?What version of MSFS they are currently running and, how long they've actually been using MSFS?I don't expect some to be totally honest because, some will wish to "win" no matter what.Does it matter? Of course it does: it matters in the same way that people choose a different place to go onvacation each year, if they can afford to: one tires of repeating the same "game actionsplays": this is called becoming bored.So even though there are some hardcore simmers hoping for the best, my guess is that most hardcore simmers see this "Flight"as a no-go.

Edited January 12, 201214 yr by eSimmer

Maybe it's done already?

It "it took them 3 years" to make the core sim itself, along with all of Hawaii. Besides, how do we know how much of the rest of the world isn't already done? Just because they are nor going to give more than the Big Island and a couple of planes away for free, isn't proof that a lot of other scenery isn't finished (or in various stages of completion). Again, we don't have the facts.You guys can continue to view Flight as a failure, and never even giving it a chance. Which is pretty short sighted.Just because Flight is initially going to be a free game, that is expandable with purchasable DLC, doesn't mean that it cannot replace FSXI prefer to give any flightsim a chance until I know all the facts. K?Edited: Crossed posted you Jim, :)

Edited January 12, 201214 yr by Arwen

I have no idea what the full release version of Flight will entail, but I do know that FSX had a demo version as well that was restricted to Princess Juliana, so this limited region demo is not unprecedented. I think a lot of this negativity is folks not wanting to get their hopes up just to be let down, which is understandable. But, the only ones who really know what's going on, besides Microsoft, is the developers who have NDA's. And, since they have NDA's, you're not getting info there. It will have to be a wait and see until more information on the full release is divulged.