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Chris341

Now that the NGX is here...

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When can we expect to see the 777 and what new stuff might we see in it? I know I'm gonna love the PMDG 777, because the 777 is my second favorite aircraft (behin the 737 of course ;)) and PMDG is extrememly well known for their intensive studies into aircraft to get them as close to the real thing as flight sim will allow. Now I'm not gonna rush you guys with it, because not only is that a bad idea, but you guys are well known for taking your time and keeping us on our toes untill everything is just right (I know this first hand from having to wait for the NGX). But I still wanna know what technologies we might get to see, such as maybe a weather radar if such a thing would ever be possible? Also, when might we expect to see it hit the market? I estimate, based on calculations from the time it took to complete the NGX, that it will be out sometime in 2014-2015?

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When can we expect to see the 777 and what new stuff might we see in it?
Please... please dont do this. It will come out when it comes out. The NGX is still practically new. Enjoy it. If the forums get crazy with questions such as this (like they have in the past), PMDG might just not keep us in the loop. We dont want this to turn into "Surprise! It will be released tomorrow!"

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When can we expect to see the 777 and what new stuff might we see in it? I know I'm gonna love the PMDG 777, because the 777 is my second favorite aircraft (behin the 737 of course ;)) and PMDG is extrememly well known for their intensive studies into aircraft to get them as close to the real thing as flight sim will allow. Now I'm not gonna rush you guys with it, because not only is that a bad idea, but you guys are well known for taking your time and keeping us on our toes untill everything is just right (I know this first hand from having to wait for the NGX). But I still wanna know what technologies we might get to see, such as maybe a weather radar if such a thing would ever be possible? Also, when might we expect to see it hit the market? I estimate, based on calculations from the time it took to complete the NGX, that it will be out sometime in 2014-2015?
To the OP, what we know for now is not much. We don't have an ETA, but we know the 777 will take less time than the NGX to be done, since the NGX's development was also the development process for a new ground to their future products. That's for sure. Now that they have this base appropriately assembled, tested and working, all they have to worry about is the plane design, sounds, flight dynamics, systems and the pogo stick of couse :(. But of course, this is not as easy as these words make it seems. I don't forsee any "new stuff" in it. Besides the EICAS and fly-by-wire system, which the NG doesn't have, the EFB, which is not modelled in the NGX, and a few other stuff the 777 has that the NG doesn't, there's nothing more to add regarding funcionality. And the Wx Radar you're thinking of... Forget it. This subject has been discussed over and over again and PMDG left very clear they won't be doing such system because it can't be realistically modelled in FSX, unless they find a way to do so until the 777 is released, which I think is unlikely. It won't be released this year, that's certain. But could be from the middle to late 2013, if the world doesn't end first, of course :(.Look, the NGX is still brand new. It's been released less than 6 months ago. It's the closest airplane in FSX to perfection than any other I've ever seen (I haven't flown many blum.gif). Just enjoy it for now and relax. PMDG already announced at least one iminent release in short term (secret project). As we all know, they won't pop up here giving any kind of estimate other than "somewhere between tomorrow and the end of times". I wouldn't get to excited about anything new until they start showing some screenshots and commenting on the new development, and even that is not a signal that they are close to release day.

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Thanks guys, just what I was hoping to know. I've seen many hundreds of weather radar topics around the forum and I know why exactly they're impossible to truely realistically make (at least, for now! I bet someone will find a way) and I honestly can't wait to see PMDG's rendition of the EFB. I've seen a few payware EFB's, but they're all external and operate outside the actual aircraft. But it's good to hear they have a base for it now. I will be on my toes 'till it does come out.

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... and I honestly can't wait to see PMDG's rendition of the EFB. I've seen a few payware EFB's, but they're all external and operate outside the actual aircraft. But it's good to hear they have a base for it now. I will be on my toes 'till it does come out.
Forgive the sardonic attitude - it's before 10am and I haven't had my coffee, but I really wanted to throw my questions out there:Can someone please explain to me why this would even be remotely helpful inside the sim? Please?Adding an EFB inside FSX has got to be one of the more ridiculous ideas out there. I'm not making fun of you Chris, I just think the idea is misplaced excitement.What good is a tiny screen inside the sim going to do you? We already have people complaining that in the VC, you have to zoom in to see various items on the panel (guess what, the first few times you fly a plane and you're getting used to it, you'll lean in too, so it's not too incredibly unrealistic), so now we're going to have to zoom in on the iPad that's sitting wherever in the cockpit. Not only that, but the charts cost money from a data provider (and I believe they're much more expensive than the navdata itself), so there's an added cost of upkeep, and people are already complaining that they have to update the navdata at a cost.They didn't model paper charts chilling in the pockets, able to be used. Why? Cost of upkeep and it's utterly useless, especially when you can easily download some charts off of AirNav and have a better time reading and flying them. I just don't understand why everyone is so excited about the EFB idea. Is it because it uses an iPad? It makes life easier in a real cockpit, and so do really comfy seats, but they both have about the same value here in the sim.I really can't think of any reason to think it would be a good idea. I'm open to opinions, but so far, nobody's given me anything.

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I never thought bout it like that Kyle, it might just be wasted time to try to make it. But we can't just down on things that aren't even in real development yet, we'll just have to see what PMDG does and hope it's good, and surely it will be

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I didnt know that pmdg was going to develop a EFB, but honestly dont see a need. The best thing for my flying is in fact my iphone(not ipad so screen is a little small but still works) I open up three or four pages, on one ill have weather at departure airport, on the second, weather at arrival airport, another page ill have my flightplan from route finder, another page will have airport chart, ill have my calculator within the iphone ready for preflight( GW, FUEL required etc.), ill even have liveatc running through my iphone for the immersion factor. All i have to do is swipe page to page and all my information i need is there without any hard copies necessary. Sorta my own EFB. As im flying along approaching my destination, ill swipe a couple pages to the left and have my arrival weather, a little tap of the refresh button in safari and voila!!!! updated weather.All the infornation i need on my little tiny iphone, without havi g to minimize fs, fire up the printer, find some paper etc etc. THE BEST THING EVER!!!!!! Having said all that, no need to implement an EFB.P.S this reply was posted with my Iphone(laptop is right in front of me, yet still used the iphone) LOL.Gerry Soulliere

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But we can't just down on things that aren't even in real development yet, we'll just have to see what PMDG does and hope it's good, and surely it will be
But we can down on a fully simulated galley containing a workable coffee maker, and switches to turn on the ovens for meal service...why? Because it's pointless. It adds nothing to the simulation of what we're doing here. Same thing if someone added working video screens back in the cabin. What does it add? Nothing, or very close to nothing.While I see your point that there's no need to unnecessarily stifle development, at the same time, there are bounds to which development is considered acceptable. I have to run quick math from time to time while flying, which requires a calculator. Should we add one of those to the flight deck? I always keep one with me when I fly...why not in the sim? I need a notepad to take notes when I fly IFR (codes, freqs, clearances and so on), so should we add a pad of paper on the clipboard so we can type on it? I know it probably seems like I'm being extreme here, but I don't think people are being realistic here. I still don't understand the obsession with the EFB in the sim, at all.We have AirNav.com, which you can pull up on a phone, or a computer and get the same functionality (and more) than someone on the flight deck...and it won't take a hit on FS performance because FS is trying to render extra objects on the flight deck, that you can hardly read comfortably anyway.I'm not trying to defecate on dreams here. I'm trying to point out why I think it's absurd, and hopefully generate a decent argument for why I'm wrong.

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Forgive the sardonic attitude - it's before 10am and I haven't had my coffee, but I really wanted to throw my questions out there:Can someone please explain to me why this would even be remotely helpful inside the sim? Please?Adding an EFB inside FSX has got to be one of the more ridiculous ideas out there. I'm not making fun of you Chris, I just think the idea is misplaced excitement.What good is a tiny screen inside the sim going to do you? We already have people complaining that in the VC, you have to zoom in to see various items on the panel (guess what, the first few times you fly a plane and you're getting used to it, you'll lean in too, so it's not too incredibly unrealistic), so now we're going to have to zoom in on the iPad that's sitting wherever in the cockpit. Not only that, but the charts cost money from a data provider (and I believe they're much more expensive than the navdata itself), so there's an added cost of upkeep, and people are already complaining that they have to update the navdata at a cost.They didn't model paper charts chilling in the pockets, able to be used. Why? Cost of upkeep and it's utterly useless, especially when you can easily download some charts off of AirNav and have a better time reading and flying them. I just don't understand why everyone is so excited about the EFB idea. Is it because it uses an iPad? It makes life easier in a real cockpit, and so do really comfy seats, but they both have about the same value here in the sim.I really can't think of any reason to think it would be a good idea. I'm open to opinions, but so far, nobody's given me anything.
if it was a 2D pop up panel like the CDU that could be resized, it would be worth it

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Kyle, are we talking about the same thing? You keep mentioning calculators, notepads, iPads that are all portable, non-essential, things that are not an integral part of the aircraft.Meanwhile 777 utilises a Class 3 EFB, that is an integral part of the aircraft, quite different in my eyes.

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Kyle, are we talking about the same thing? You keep mentioning calculators, notepads, iPads that are all portable, non-essential, things that are not an integral part of the aircraft.Meanwhile 777 utilises a Class 3 EFB, that is an integral part of the aircraft, quite different in my eyes.
I agree with you 1000%. Moreover, that 'tiny' screen is still bigger than the CDU, and we can all read it, plus, that a lot of people cannot read the VC does not mean the VC is illegible, and should not be a reason not to include the EFB (if PMDG is capable of simulating it, that is).I, for one, know that it's going to help me very much. I know this because I sometimes have a problem with having to go to windowed mode just to read the charts. Sometimes I'm forced to go to the top-down view to check the taxiway that I'm supposed to use, and to know how close I am to my next left or right turn during taxiing. With the EFB, all I have to do is glance down and left (or down and right as the case may be), or change EZCA views. I don't like to print all those charts as they're paper and ink consuming, not to mention that the own aircraft is not superimposed on any of them.I cannot afford a tablet at the moment, and I don't have to upgrade the charts often (there are a lot of people that are still using the Navigraph (AIRAC) data that shipped with the NGX and haven't upgraded ever, probably because they can't afford to, but are still flying happily, so I believe the first software that ships with the EFB could still be maintained as long as one wished, or further more one could decide to buy just one update and keep that).Also, do not forget that there is EZCA. An extra camera view could be dedicated to the EFB.That said, I'm looking forward to the EFB in the T7, unless PMDG cannot simulate it. I think if they can do it, then it's worth doing. That's my opinion.

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Kyle, are we talking about the same thing? You keep mentioning calculators, notepads, iPads that are all portable, non-essential, things that are not an integral part of the aircraft.Meanwhile 777 utilises a Class 3 EFB, that is an integral part of the aircraft, quite different in my eyes.
I know the EFB that is being discussed here, related to the 777, but I was also speaking to address the other EFBs that other people are mentioning in aircraft where they are not integrated. While the 777s is different, there are certain modes that would be nearly useless in my eyes.
I agree with you 1000%. Moreover, that 'tiny' screen is still bigger than the CDU, and we can all read it, plus, that a lot of people cannot read the VC does not mean the VC is illegible, and should not be a reason not to include the EFB (if PMDG is capable of simulating it, that is).I, for one, know that it's going to help me very much. I know this because I sometimes have a problem with having to go to windowed mode just to read the charts. Sometimes I'm forced to go to the top-down view to check the taxiway that I'm supposed to use, and to know how close I am to my next left or right turn during taxiing. With the EFB, all I have to do is glance down and left (or down and right as the case may be), or change EZCA views. I don't like to print all those charts as they're paper and ink consuming, not to mention that the own aircraft is not superimposed on any of them.I cannot afford a tablet at the moment, and I don't have to upgrade the charts often (there are a lot of people that are still using the Navigraph (AIRAC) data that shipped with the NGX and haven't upgraded ever, probably because they can't afford to, but are still flying happily, so I believe the first software that ships with the EFB could still be maintained as long as one wished, or further more one could decide to buy just one update and keep that).Also, do not forget that there is EZCA. An extra camera view could be dedicated to the EFB.
The screen may be bigger than the CDUs, but you also have to consider that the content displayed on that screen is of a smaller format. The text on the MCDU is hard set to particular sizes, so that even on a smaller screen, it is still legible from a distance. What about a chart on a slightly larger screen? The text is going to be small and difficult to read.While I see your point on the camera default (something that, if implemented, you wouldn't need EZCA to do, as PMDG has added presets into their products anyway up to this point), in the end, it's still easier to pull up an external site and have it ready to go. On approaches, you really shouldn't be fumbling around with keys and views to get your information. With a chart in front of me (printed, on my phone, on my other computer, or otherwise), all I need to do is glance to remind myself of the previously briefed (hopefully) information. With your EFB option? A A A A A A, (Zoom Zoom Zoom)...oh...okay! Shift+A Shift+A Shift+A Shift+A Shift+A Shift+A...AH CRAP, I'm off the LOC/GS/whatever!On your other notes, if you need to go into Top Down view to figure out where you are, then you need a quick review of the charts. I don't get top down view RW, and I manage just fine with ground taxi diagrams (and my home airport doesn't even have diagrams - then again, it's a lot simpler than most). EFB assists you, but you shouldn't crutch on top-down, or need an EFB to tell you that... That's what taxi signs are for. Black part says B, yellow part shows a reference to Z - I'm at the intersection of B and Z. Look at the chart. BAM! There you are...It's not that I'm against modeling it in the 777 (it's part of the plane), but EFBs are mentioned every time someone comes out with a new aircraft now. People mentioned it when the 737 was coming out too, and it's far from integrated in that airframe (thus the calculator reference, and so on). I don't understand why people think they are going to make the sim that much more immersive and awesome. I guess I'm just tired of hearing about them, when most people seem to be thinking they'll be in there for quick chart display.The 777's at least has performance calcs and a logbook, and so on (including manuals...hey! maybe people might read them now!!!), so I can see a use for those, but the whole idea that we should have an EFB around for charts is a little ridiculous in my opinion.

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Let me share my point of view regarding EFBs.I'm really looking forward to it. Why? Because it's cool. May not be the best reason ever, but I like it, as well as many people out there, including pilots and some airline guys who decides what to put in their 777s. With that said, I agree with Kyle when he says integrating charts in the EFB is an unviable thing to do. Airlines pay thousands of dollars for updated worldwide coverage of charts. PMDG itself has already admitted it's unviable. Way to expensive. Also, a ZIP file with full charts for, say, a thousand major airports would be incredbly heavy. Us simmers have many websites out there which provide them for free. So I wouldn't mind if they gave us an EFB without charts. It's better than nothing and, after all, that's not all about this system. Or is it? Another thing they could try to do is to integrate charts in PDF format or even the nDAC charts to the EFB. Those who have nDAC, like me, or like to download charts in PDF and want those charts to be displayed in the sim could simply run some kind of installer which would read your charts database (in case of nDAC) or the PDF and convert them into textures displayable in the sim. I'm really confident PMDG will find a way to do so. They always do. Although I'd understand if they don't. I have to.I really believe they'll do the EFB because it's not the type of systems that just one or two airlines use, but it's increasingly gaining space in the airliners. One can't ignrore it's importance and the fact it has a space in the airline industry now-a-days. If you want to use your iPad, iPhone or other hardware, that's fine. Just disable the EFB in the equipment options.What I think people have to understand here is that a developer like PMDG won't just not develop a feature because YOU (not talking to anyone especifically) think it's a waste of time, since you have your iPad or iPhone and love it. Also, they won't make the EFB just because myself and somebody else likes it. If they do it, it'll be because they see a use for it and they think it's viable and doable in the sim.

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