Real Pilot, maybe?

[M_Sauce 6]

Excellent post Dan F, really summs it up well. I had a friend who was furloughed from the majors and he lasted half a day in his new desk job, even though it would make him 3 times his airline salary. The next day he was filling out his application at a regional to go make 20K as an FO in a turboprop to claw his way back up. This is the kind of job (and more importantly, lifestyle) which is very hard to leave - especially once you are used to it.A lot of very good posts in this thread, except for this one:

Second, there are times when it's really nice to say, "I'm not comfortable flying today", and just leave the plane tied down. Commercial guys just can't do that.

Sorry, but utter garbage. As an airline pilot I have a vested interest in the safety of a flight which I will operate. None of my friends and collegues in the same profession would ever step on board an aircraft unless they are comfortable. Just the other day I stepped right of the airplane because it was not safe to fly, and I will probably do that many more times this year. It is part of our job and it is why airlines pay us to make that decission. The day that decission is no longer mine or the operating crew's is the day I start taking buses and boats. Hope that is clear for all that do not fly for a living.I do agree with many here that the industry is changing, have seen it first hand. There is a problem not just attracting new pilots, but more specifically, attracting the correct candidate. This is a profession which requires lots of dedication and there are very few gigs left which still offer great financial reward as well. For a long time airlines relied on that dedication and could get away with low starting slaries in exchange for the chance to get experience and move on to better paying positions further up the chain. When airlines began to be managed by accountants and professional managers they started tinkering with the "big carrot" at the top of the ladder. We are now suffering the consequences of this unbalance in that those that have the passion seek other career paths that will facilitate other forms of flying. This decoupling of the passion from the job has led to the wrong candidates entering the profession, the effects of which we've only just started to experience. Dedication is great, but the math has to at least make sense, otherwise common sense challenges the dedication.Having said that, it is still a very rewarding job - at all levels. I have flown small passenger / cargo short distances, as well as big passenger / cargo long distances. I can tell you all come with their own different challenges. Having operated shuttle flights from LGA to DCA where there is an airport just about every other mile has its own set of challenges. These are quite different than taking 400 passengers from A to B, when B is 7000nm (4000 of them over some of the most desolate terrain on this earth) away from A. But both are very rewarding and satisfying. Yes, the long-haul can get tedious and boring at times, but the office has a great view and the company is almost always good. And the thrill is still there when you begin your approach into a challenging airport with crappy weather, no matter how jaded you might be.The challenges have also changed a little as the technology evolves, and that is creating its own set of problems. LOC (loss of control) is now the leading cause of airline fatalities and that is very disconcerting. These are the basics of our skills and they should not be an issue by the time you reach the airline level, they should have been sorted out during your initial training years. But when you are putting 0 hour, or poorly trained individuals in airline cockpits, your initial training years and your airline years occur simultaneously. This all comes back to the upsetting of the balance which I refferred to above, and like I said, we are only just seeing the tip of the iceberg. It is the equivalent of your braing surgeon fainting at the sight of blood. Again, something that should have been picked up at medical school me thinks!As a father, would I recommend this profession to my child? I would like to think that I would recommend she do something she loves to do, as my parents did to me. If you only chase money then you are bound to end up getting it, but satisfaction might not be guaranteed. If her passion ends up being flying, then so be it. She won't be the richest person financially, but then again, how much is happiness worth? Her happines is worth more than anything to me, so I guess that answers that.One thing is for sure, if there were more applicants with a dedication for aviation such as I see among simmers, the industry would be in much better shape. I'll take someone with 0 real hours but countless sim flying hours over a 200 hour "does-not-know-what-a-cessna-is" cadet any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

[FLEX1978 373]

Great post Mariano,Only just clicked on this thread but your comment about stepping of the plane got me thinking. I will be careful what I say since my name is clearly on my sig but I could tell you some pretty crazy stories about crew having to except aircraft in a bad condition, engineers signing off aircraft to please management, and I'm not talking about small outfits here, I am talking big airlines.Crew being made to fly right up to there maximum hours dog tired, serious faults being covered up, improper fatigue checks etc etc.The whole time the SLF in the back blissfully unaware. I know pilots that wouldn't let there own family's travel on the aircraft they fly but are stuck and are either bonded to the airline or have no chioce to make ends meet.While nowhere near the extreme end of things here's a little something I came across a while back (I edited certain parts)

• Bleed Eng. 1 inop + No APU = Captain are you happy to take it like this?
• 2. Two emergency slides expired = Captain they will be changed when you come back.
• Captain’s rudder paddles can NOT be adjusted = Captain if you seat one meter back you should be fine, Captain are you happy to take it like this?
• IR 2 INOPS = Captain we got MCC in ****** to send us one, and we will change it when you come back from COK. (IR 1 and 2 is a must for RNP)
• RA 1 and 2 Inops + keep getting auto calls on the ground = Captain what do you mean you will be in Direct Law?
• FO window not opening and jammed = Captain is too hot outside to open it anway. (hell with the emergency)
• The altimeter selector can only work on 100’ and not 1000, happy to take it like this captain? is only 380 moves to get to FL380
• NO chiller + only one oven working in the whole plane = full pax 4:30 hours to MAA

No water in the plane after only 30 min as the tank is leaking.

• FO dikstick is able to move for 5 cms across without any aircraft movement.
• Stdby attitude inop. and still flying.
• Bleed one + pack two inop, bleed two supplying pack one via x-feed (normal operation)
• Manual Air Start every flight, sorry captain APU is u/s
• Daily check expired day and half ago.

[jbassue 181]

Sometimes I would prefer just not to read these stuff, they can really be depressing at times, and I often wonder why have I spent the majority of my life in love with pilots, just to be neglected once I do become a pilot, it is not worthit anymore, I have a better chance persuing some Medical study I suppose.

[Mean Aerodynamic Chord 269]

Sometimes I would prefer just not to read these stuff, they can really be depressing at times, and I often wonder why have I spent the majority of my life in love with pilots, just to be neglected once I do become a pilot, it is not worthit anymore, I have a better chance persuing some Medical study I suppose.

+10000000000

[jbassue 181]

+10000000000

I guess, If we all had this mentality, there would be fewer pilots in the near future, and airlines will be forced to raise saleries to attract :LMAO:I think it is HIGHLY unfair, that we are tasked with taking care of hundreds of souls (And our own) for hours on end, and be treated like taxi-drivers (No offense to Taxi Drivers).I think we neglect how hard being a pilot is at times, if a doctor screws, he kills one person, if we screw, well, hmm. But it seems like society prefers to reward someone more highly after taking a risk of killing one person, opposed to killing 100+. Edited February 2, 2012 by DeadlyInertia

[gmohr 0]

A lot of very good posts in this thread, except for this one:...Sorry, but utter garbage.

With all due respect, its not garbage, its my opinion based on my appetite for risk. As a private pilot, I'm completely free to dictate my own minimums in every respect. Everyone piloting commercial has some pressure to go, above and beyond that. And while admire your infallable judgement as apparent from your post, I wonder how many of your fellow CP's have found themselves 'up there' wishing they were 'down here'.Regards,George

[ZachLW 37]

With all due respect, its not garbage, its my opinion based on my appetite for risk. As a private pilot, I'm completely free to dictate my own minimums in every respect. Everyone piloting commercial has some pressure to go, above and beyond that. And while admire your infallable judgement as apparent from your post, I wonder how many of your fellow CP's have found themselves 'up there' wishing they were 'down here'.Regards,George

As a commercially rated pilot, I still have every right to stay on the ground if I deem it necessary. For hire or not... Having a commercial or better is a mark of professionalism. At that level and beyond, one is expected to have honed their decision making skills. "Pressure" only applies to those who are prone to caving.I've heard old fair weather pilots with the same argument: "I have my private. Flying professionally is stupid, why would I want to pressure myself. I'll stick to flying when there is zero wind and no clouds." That argument is A-Okay, but saying a pilot for hire doesn't have their own minimums is nonsensical. On an airline level, I hope the pilot is capable of company minimums, else they shouldn't be there in the first place... Edited February 2, 2012 by ZachLW

[PIC007 82]

One thing is for sure, if there were more applicants with a dedication for aviation such as I see among simmers, the industry would be in much better shape.

Excellant post Mariano!

[gmohr 0]

... That argument is A-Okay, but saying a pilot for hire doesn't have their own minimums is nonsensical.

No one said that, or at least I certainly didn't. What I did say was that my personal minimums wouldn't be compatible with flying for pay. You guys should really to read the posts before you respond. I have all the respect in the world for professional pilots, I just don't really want to be one.

[ryanbatc 12,857]

If you're thinking about real world flying you should consider air traffic control as well. Decent pay (finally), great job security, solid benefits. Plus if in a tower you get to look at airplanes all day hehe. I can take excellent photos from the tower catwalk :)

[ZachLW 37]

No one said that, or at least I certainly didn't. What I did say was that my personal minimums wouldn't be compatible with flying for pay. You guys should really to read the posts before you respond. I have all the respect in the world for professional pilots, I just don't really want to be one.

With all respect, I'm not being a smart alec! I did read the post, and I responded appropriately as far as I'm concerned. I challenge you to re-read my post. Again, personal minimums are very much a part of professional flying. My point is that at a professional level, personal minimums are going to be lower, skill higher, decision making better. In theory.

Everyone piloting commercial has some pressure to go, above and beyond that. And while admire your infallable judgement as apparent from your post, I wonder how many of your fellow CP's have found themselves 'up there' wishing they were 'down here'.

In response to this. As you insinuated, commercial pilots going "above and beyond personal minimums and acceptable risks."Not that that isn't an issue in the business. But it shouldn't be if the pilot in question displays good ADM. Edited February 2, 2012 by ZachLW

[falloutgamer65 0]

I really want to be a commercial pilot, but as already stated, it is not what it used to be. Here is my plan....i am currently 16 working on my PPL, once i graduate high school i plan on going to the ohio state university to major in aerospace engineering and minor in aviation. Hopefully i can land an internship/job with netjets and work my way up and "get to know people." Once i get my degrees and necessary ratings i can flight instruct for a while then join a regional for a little bit until i have enough hours to fly for netjets. OR i can use my degree in engineering to possibly get a more stable, better paying job with an aircraft manufacturing company etc. what do you guys think?

[miami747 7]

I guess, If we all had this mentality, there would be fewer pilots in the near future, and airlines will be forced to raise saleries to attract :LMAO:I think it is HIGHLY unfair, that we are tasked with taking care of hundreds of souls (And our own) for hours on end, and be treated like taxi-drivers (No offense to Taxi Drivers).I think we neglect how hard being a pilot is at times, if a doctor screws, he kills one person, if we screw, well, hmm. But it seems like society prefers to reward someone more highly after taking a risk of killing one person, opposed to killing 100+.

. Let's not compare a doctor to a pilot. It is much much more difficult to become a doctor and it is a much more difficult job. When there is an "autopilot" for doctors then we can talk. Don't get me wrong being an airline captain or taking a Baron 58 full of checks down an ILS approach is not easy, but neither is surgery or diagnosing a disease. The amount of natural aptitude it takes to become a doctor can't compare to a pilot. Again pilots do have a job with a huge amount of responsibility and pay at many airlines is abysmal. But doctors earn every penny.

[bpcw001 22]

Hi all..Just curious to know, that if you could have your time again, would you of chosen to become a real pilot, based on what you know now?...I know I would have. :(

I would definitely have become a commercial ATP about twenty years ago if it had not been for my myopia, which is 100% correctable, but which busted the diopter limits at that time.Only recently have the medical requirements been relaxed here in Europe so that I'd be eligible for a class 1 medical.However, twenty years too late ... :sad:So I've got to put up with burning money and flying around as a private pilot :( Edited February 2, 2012 by bpcw001

[FLEX1978 373]

.Let's not compare a doctor to a pilot. It is much much more difficult to become a doctor and it is a much more difficult job. When there is an "autopilot" for doctors then we can talk. Don't get me wrong being an airline captain or taking a Baron 58 full of checks down an ILS approach is not easy, but neither is surgery or diagnosing a disease. The amount of natural aptitude it takes to become a doctor can't compare to a pilot.Again pilots do have a job with a huge amount of responsibility and pay at many airlines is abysmal. But doctors earn every penny.

Surgeons earn every penny, doctors I'm not too sure about. I take it you have never visited the UK? Sorry for the thread drift..