I'll chip in a few points (having 'lived the dream', as it were):- My family has had to make massive sacrifices too. That sucks. I can handle sacrificing stuff for what I love to do, but it's painful to have to tell my children I'm going away yet again.- My pay is ok, after a long, long time of lower pay and financial sacrifice, and random salaries. My wife has had to carry the can quite a few times. Lucky me that I have a professionally qualified wife!- I've lost two jobs due to the companies folding. Aviation is an incredibly volatile business. Somebody in Asia sneezes, something happens, and aviation takes a dive (SARS, fuel price, world economy, 9/11, Gulf war, any terror attack, bird flu, Euro crisis, you name it, aviation takes a dump. And there goes your job and/or massive increase in the time to command with associated delay in getting a bigger salary, etc etc etc)- My initial qualification was as an engineer, but I had the opportunity to change, so I did. I would have had more money and time at home as an engineer. Nonetheless, I'm happy where I am (eventually!)- If you become an airline pilot, flying at work will almost certainly become 'just a job'. It's hard to get excited about what becomes essentially an airbourne bus. We all like the Ferrari's (fighters, warbirds etc), but that's not actually what we fly day in and out. That's not to say we get all bored. Actually I still find it awesome, the actual flying part at least. Sitting in the cruise is less exciting, but at least I'm airbourne. All the crap on the ground (politics, delays you didn't cause, random cock ups, passengers with no idea of what is actually possible etc) is a giant life-sucking vortex however.- There is no 'glamour' as a pilot anymore. That's ok, it doesn't bother me at all (To be honest, I'd rather wear jeans and a T-shirt, and slip into the cockpit without anybody seeing me so I can get busy flying!) But what it means to me, for example, is that now we get searched for 'dangerous weapons' in the same way as passengers. So, despite the fact that I could kill everyone on board within seconds with my bare hands, and despite the fact that I have a massive axe just behind me, I can't take my penknife through! Retards! Basically, we're not to be trusted anymore. I don't care about the glamour - but at least treat me like I know what I'm doing at an airport!- Company politics, and/or vast quantities of admin. A pain in any job I suppose! I'm lucky in that I don't get 'homework', or have to worry about 'deadlines' though :)- Not that much time off when normal humans are having time off. Weekend event? Enjoy it without me! Family dinner? I'll think of you in the cruise!All in all, I'm happy where I am. After a long, hard slog! Would I recommend it to my children? Not really. Would I stop them doing it? No way, they'll decide for themselves. Do I like it? Yes.My 2c.P.S. As mentioned by many, it's a very difficult comparison - but I reckon doctors are way more hardcore, having studied with a few when I was studying engineering. That is a MOUNTAIN of work! Flying theory just came more naturally to me I guess. But that's just me!

Edited February 4, 201214 yr by ARM505

James,I am not here to fan flames or say one profession is better than the other or that one profession is "worth" more in terms of pay. If that was inferred I apologize. I simply was addressing the fact that you stated that with enough money, anyone could become a pilot; as well as becoming a pilot was far easier than to become a doctor. I disagree with you on those statements alone. Nowhere in my post did I mention or state anything about pay. As far as the stats, I was simply supporting the fact that not everyone with a lot of money can be a pilot. I also never stated that it was not difficult to pursue an M.D.As far as my friend, to answer your question, he is a fellow pilot, and no it was not easier, just different and a lot less money.Todd

This is getting pathetic....it was just a curiosity question. Why all the disputes and conflicts about doctors and pilots, etc?.

This is getting pathetic....it was just a curiosity question. Why all the disputes and conflicts about doctors and pilots, etc?.

Pre game jitters, cause the Giants are going to get their butts kicked :-)

This is quite the topic, amazing how hot headed people get over these things. Mariano seems to be one of the more credible voices in this thread. And I was very entertained by many of his posts. Being an Airline Transport Pilot is a profession that is more like a lawyer, although thats unpopular, but every pilot out there has a fairly extensive library of books that they've collected and read over the years and they are always disputing federal regulations like rest and alternate rules, which always involve gray areas. The daily life of a pilot is not just flying the airplane from A to B, its managing every little detail of that flight because even if the ramp crew screws up the numbers, there is no way for the captain to know that, but he is responsible. Flying does differ from other professions because of how deeply satisfying it can be. For those of us that have been lucky enough to have the opportunity to work in such a career it is hard to explain. There are certainly days when you watch the sun come up at FL350 and think "I am the luckiest person there is to get to see this moment from here," while drinking coffee. I used to lay on the lawn outside my parents house when I was younger and wonder if those guys up there know how lucky they are. It took me going to the airlines to realize % of them don't realize how lucky they are. Are there kids out there that day dream about being doctors and lawyers? Sure, but there's just something about people that day dream to be pilots, that have the desire to go out and make that a reality, the person that gets out on the runway despite all the millions of things that could go wrong and pushes the thrust levers forward and is ready for whatever happens afterwards. Those people are always looking up, whether they are virtual or real world pilots. You never lose the bug. I had to recently resign my position at my airline due to inner ear problems and it has been the hardest thing I've ever done. It really is a horrible sensation and flight simulator is the only thing to keep me sane at this point. You really take it all for granted until its gone. And it really feels like a piece of you has been torn out. There isn't anything I wouldn't give to be out there doing a walk around again in a blizzard slipping all over the place on the deicing fluid, or being delayed out of JFK and just admiring all the heavy iron parked around you from seemingly every country in the world. Haha its amazing what you miss when your able to get to your dream and then lose it all. I really hope to get a fresh start with another airline in the future, but after 5 years at one airline and starting over at 30 will be hard, but this time around, if I get the opportunity I'll certainly appreciate it more than I did before. Because in the end it really is the best job there is, may not be the best career, but it is by far the best job, and there isn't anyone who could convince me otherwise. Sorry to rant.Erik

If I were to dream about being a pilot it would definitely not be a pilot working for any airline. My dream would be to own some kind of very nice turboprop and fly with my friends and family strictly for pleasure. Fly into smaller airports, stay in some nice bed & breakfasts, etc.

I really hope to get a fresh start with another airline in the future, but after 5 years at one airline and starting over at 30 will be hard,

Erik, I cant imagine how you must feel, but the good news is, 30 aint that old, still plenty of time to get back in. Good luck with your search.

With the number of doctor caused deaths (250,000 in US alone) annually, I think I would rather have a pilot operating on me!

Yes, I'm afraid we'll have to remove your Yaw Damper !!...and we have seen signs of Livery Failure !! :(

Edited February 4, 201214 yr by RYR738

If I were to dream about being a pilot it would definitely not be a pilot working for any airline. My dream would be to own some kind of very nice turboprop and fly with my friends and family strictly for pleasure. Fly into smaller airports, stay in some nice bed & breakfasts, etc.

Amen to that! Exactly what I do in the sim. My plane of choice would be a either a PC-12, or one of the VLJs, quite a fan of the SJ-30 if it ever makes it into production. So I am torn between accessibility to every solid strip in the world with the Pilatus, or the high-speed, high-altitude reach to get to far off places in the SJ30. I think the economics of the Pilatus would make it hard to pass-by, but it would certainly make for tense moments over un-friendly terrain. OK, bit of thread drift there, sorry.

Erik, I cant imagine how you must feel, but the good news is, 30 aint that old, still plenty of time to get back in. Good luck with your search.

I agree. I have many friends who started over at 30-40. Remember, retirement ages are ring up everywhere (65 where I work, used to be 55 when I started). Assuming you start at 40, that still gives you 25 years. Not to mention it will most likely continue to go up or be completely abolished like NZ or Canada. Then you can fly as long as you can hold a medical.You are gonna see many aircraft taxiing with their blinkers still on since it left the gate... hahaha.

I find the doctor versus pilot analogy interesting. Why? Well, I'm an orthopaedic surgery resident. This means I'm 2 years in to my training as a surgeon and quickly getting seperated from reality (what's an acetabulum?). In the same vain, I had a spot in the naval acadmey (hoping to get a spot in flight training) leaving high school before I let that go not liking the "flying a desk in 5 years" concept. I later went to work for various government angencies during my undergraduate career majoring in mechanical engineering. During this time I got my private, instrument, multi and complex (hey, when you work with a bunch of pilots), but still ended up in a career as surgeon. Interestingly, I liked aviation for the complex "toys". As fun as these toys are, they are expensive and I never renewed my medical and haven't flown in 5+ years. For me, a flight simulator like FSX fills my need for the toys and button pushing. While I like the feeling of free flight, it is never the reason I got my license and furhter certifications. So, here is my take on pilot vs doctor:Doctor (over pilot): Realize that my view is tainted by being a surgeon. Medical (vs surgical) doctors are more academic and less techincal than surgeons. With that said, the key difficulty doctors encounter is extremie ambiguity. In medical studies, >95% certainty is required to be sure we have a statistically significant result in studies. Compare this to the reliability of aircraft systems. These systesms are far >95% reliable. I can tell patients that they are likely to heal their fracture, but I won't know that for 3 months. We also need to "treat the human spirit" (current hosptal's slogan). Interpersonal skills are critical and you can be the best surgeon and patients will leave you because you have a terrible personality. Similary, you can be the worst surgeon and people will flock to you because of your bedside manner.Pilot (over doctor): Pilots take dozens of lives in to their hand every day. However, your systems reliability is fantastic. If you're having an off day, the systems may infact be able to do it all (i.e. autoland). Of course, that doesn't change failures and your ego to say your on top of these dozens of lives. THE KEY difference though is that people come to you in normal condition expecting to leave in normal condition. For physicians, they arive sick expecting to leave in a better condition.Pilots and doctors (the same): 1) we both think we're gods, who can't when we have lives in our hands. 2) Following procedures serves us well most of the time. 3) We must know when protocols fail us and we need to make our own judgements.This is s pilot oriented forum. I'd love to hear and entertain discussion on how my job as a physician differs from pilots.Eric Szzczesniak

Edited February 5, 201214 yr by ESzczesniak

Yes, I'm afraid we'll have to remove your Yaw Damper !!...and we have seen signs of Livery Failure !!

They just better leave the pitot tube alone! :-)

, quite a fan of the SJ-30 if it ever makes it into production.

I think it is in production albeit extremely slow, 8 were made. The company is in and out of bankruptcy all the time, not sure I would be eager to get into such expensive airplane with such shaky business behind it.

This whole thread turned ridiculous..

Interesting post Eric, thank you for providing the medical perspective to this all.As far as ego, I think you will find amongs pilots it is a dying personality trait. Having said, that, you do have to be quite confident, so maybe that sometimes comes across as ego. It is quite scary watching someone in my profession who lacks confidence. Everybody has their own personality, but you really can't doubt yourself when you are approaching the ground at 165kts or maneuvering on a circling approach in crappy weather. If you start doubting your abilities then things might start going pear-shaped really quickly.I'm sure it is the same with surgeons, although you would know better. I can't imagine a surgeon doubting his abilities before splitting someone open. Not only is that dangerous, but it would sure as sh_t scare the feces out of the patient. I haven't met that many doctors (do my parents count?), but the ones I have, are certainly all quite confident.

You know, this debate has been going on for years.Are pilots "Professionals" in the strictest sense of the term?That is, do they regulate themselves, provide training within an existing association, constantly develop programs and systems to build the profession? Malpractice insurance and paid professional development and the like? This and so much more?It's a question asked and debated within the aviation maintenance profession as well.While doctors and lawyers have a their Colleges and Law Society's (respectively) to provide the above, there really isn't anything comparable in the aviation world, at least not in a national or even regional sense. The closest thing is really the unions and as stated above, there is still a lot of skepticism and anger over the union culture in aviation.I'm gonna get flak for this but it's the truth; In the majority of the western world, the Pilot profession is viewed and legislated more as a trade. There is nothing legally or regulatory that prevents someone with less than a Grade 10 education and the necessary licenses (either maintenance or flying) from working with/on an aircraft. We can extol all sorts of statements about how it's not a trade because the pilot has the lives of others in his hand etc etc, but the reality is the risk of loss of life is in many if not all professions.The Chef doesn't have a degree but a poor cut of meat or undercooked vegetable can mean the death of someone.The Welder finishing up scaffold or structure has literally the weight of hundreds of thousands on his work.The Soldier must do what is unspeakable. Make the decision to purposely decide the fate of an individual.I could go on and on but I think you get the drift.My personal opinion? Yes. It's BS that the aviation community as a whole is basically a pot of pessimism, ego, and false hopes.