I've flown quite a few hours right seat with a friend with an Rv6 and I have to say-doesn't seem very accurate to me.Also - the same gauges from what-back to fs2002? king 155 radios-20+ years old? I haven't seen any of those in the Rv's I've been in.Just saying.....

I suspect not. those complaints are all too often accompanied by tertiary statements along the lines of "Stupid training missions.... after 15 minutes I uninstalled this piece of......."Etc.

After 15 minutes? I think I did the first two missions in about 10 minutes - I have flown a sim before, so they weren't onerous or hard.Maybe they found after trying for 15 minutes the training missions were too difficult? One does wonder! :LMAO:The very first thing I did was turn off the simplified flight models; so I haven't experienced this simple flight model everyone complains about.I have however experienced a rather challenging situation in the RV7, doing one of the 'simple', 'basic', 'boring' 'game-like' aerocaches. I decided to get the cache-of-the-day, the tallest mountain on Oahu, and I had the weather set to storms. Well, I took off from Patterson-Wright field, headed west - it was bumpy, gusting to 25kts, then I got into the wind-wake behind the western ranges - YIKES! downdrafts! updrafts! I saw a gust hit 68kts in one of the passes, at which point I started to realise I might be in a bit of bother. Full throttle, a valley turn out of there and get some altitude! I got the cache flying into a headwind of 60kts over the top of the mountain, watching the terrain craaaaaawl past, and hoping the wind didn't drop or I would just smack straight into the mountain.Next time I do one, I'm going to do it in FOG!OK, the clouds might not be up to REX quality but the weather modelling is brilliant!

I've flown quite a few hours right seat with a friend with an Rv6 and I have to say-doesn't seem very accurate to me.Also - the same gauges from what-back to fs2002? king 155 radios? I haven't seen any of those in the Rv's I've been in.Just saying.....

Well Geoff, there were more than a few owners of Vans RV-6 and -7 in the beta group who'd say otherwise. Just saying...

I have a couple words-roll rate? Kinda reminds me of xplane defaults-and why would one put 20+ year old radios in a plane like this?

That's not really the flight model's fault. It's the lack of having a non-linearity adjustment available or yokes/sticks in Flight's UI. Give it a few days (weeks?) and someone will find a way to tune the standard.xml file manually to dampen the response curves.

Yeah-the xplaner's love to blame it on the joystick too.

On that note -Might I suggest trying the various AIRCRAFTTYPE Landing Challenges.Particularly the 6 off Stearman Landing Challenges.When you've earned Gold for all of them,if you're still not happywith Flight's performance monitoring, and training aspects,please come back & say so.

Ok, I'll bite. I find these challenges rather contrived. I have done all of them, many of them gold, but I missed gold on some by as little as 4 points. When you get one of these challenges, you are not given any information about the task. Not runway heading, not weather, not tolerances and no summary of what actually happened at the end. Just the score that is rather meaningless in terms of what actually went wrong.There is no information as to how to go about doing the challenge and as a training tool it is not very useful. You can do some of these challenges 20 times, learning by trial and error, until you get lucky and without actually knowing how you did it, you get gold. Getting gold didn't necessarily teach any good habits or methods, it required tenacity more than skill.I got gold in the three coin challenges in the beta. These were fun, but again, lots of trial and error. Given the view limitations of the game, it is very difficult to get a good idea of the layout of the coins. The difficulty of these challenges is not as much the flying as the figuring out of the optimal path to take. The flying still has to be pretty good and pretty much error-free, but the emphasis is on the path, that is, of course, not given in the challenge. Once I figured out the optimal path, I could do each challenge with ~20 seconds to spare.I flew all the hoop challenges as well, but only to get at least bronze. No interest in these at all, especially the ones that require aerobatic maneuvers, which were often missed by the program and no credit was given.So, with all the telemetry, MS is going to get a good measure of people's tolerance for repetition and tenacity. These challenges are not going to teach much to people who will give up after a few tries or after getting bronze, especially that many people flew the harder landing challenges with the mouse, because this way it was easier. I used my X52 and pedals with no assists.I have spent many hours with the beta, trying to find something good, but no matter where I looked, there was always something that made me feel like I was using an unfinished and unpolished product,, for which MS now wants to charge premium prices.

Roll rate has nothing to do with the joystick input. Every joystick made has a linear slope for input... thus based on it being the joystick that's the source of the error... and being that the joystick's input is consistently linear... all aircraft would exhibit consistently identical roll rates... if it were the joystick's fault.It's not... it's not how it works. Not even remotely. If an aircraft's roll rate is wrong... the flight dynamics are wrong for that aircraft. It's really just that simple.

Thanks "Attila" for a very well written and cogent commentary. That's precisely the kind of constructive criticism that's so valuable.

Hi FolksApologies for the late response,and excuse these ramblings,in what is almost a stale thread.Kevin -Not disagreeing with your other points.Just addressing #4 quoted above.FSX also had a mandatory set of intro missions.You chose to fly one of three options,effectively - total noob, done a bit, serious simmer.People lied & fell out of the sky.Those intros were one-offs,similarly the missions were stand-alone,and Free-Flight only logged a few parameters.All had zero-impacton any subsequent aspect of the game,(apart from granting rewards).Sidenote -I am in no-way decrying any serious-simmers,or what some of you folks get up to in 'heavies'.I have every admiration for those mastering managing complex multi-engine aircraft.However -Being able to land 30 feet either side of the centre-line,or having a runway thats > 3 times longer than essential,are IRL civil aviation safety-related compliances.FSX in-game,those same safety-compliances,permitted total-newbies to jump into 'heavies'without even acquiring the rudiments of flying,and then to develop, and persist in those, bad habits.FSX has a set of entirely optional & non-technical 'heavy' missions,Amsterdam-London Airline Run, Quito Approach, Limited Options, Monsoon Approach, 747 Test Flight, etc.however, excellent though they were,and being entirely optional,were bypassed by the majority.Bottom line -FSX, and previous,allowed you to get away with anything,but hey, its a simulator.Flight's two mandatory intros are essential.Pause for cynical laughter at this point. As we all know,almost nobody ever RTFM's, (where F == Fine).So the mandatory intros are a good way to -- Tell users how the keys work, (different from FS-previous).- Set some basic user targets.- Give instructions how to achieve them.But AIUI -Far more importantly in Flight,those intros -- Monitor the user's performance against those targets.- Categorize the user according to their performance, (into one of 3 buckets).- Tailor the Activities - Missions / Challenges / 'Jobs Board' various task's difficulty to match.And I might well be being totally paranoid here,(difficult to tell as my joystick broken ATM, and I'm flying by mouse),they possibly affect the various Aerocache's detection radius.The user's performance in Flightis far more extensively instrumented,and continuously monitored in both Activities & Free-Flight.The user's category is continually assessed& if nescessary, reassigned accordingly.Some of those monitored parameters can be seen in -- In-game on the GUI menu at - Pilot Profile - Careeror- After signing-in, at - The Flight website - My FlightThe user's career progression has potential for reflecting IRL.e.g.Flight locks the opportunity to fly Charter Passenger jobs,until the user has achieved a certain level of proficiency.Whilst not nescessarily implemented ATM,as all Jobs are dynamically generated,Flight has the capability,that if a user subsequently performs badly,they could potentially remove that 'license' to fly Charter Passenger jobs.To those of you knocking Flight's gold-coins.Flight may have a prettified & gamey front-end,but behind all that,she can be a hard & unforgiving task-master.Pause for more cynical laughter.Seriously -Flight has great potential as a learning toolit shows signs of both a structured,though entirely optional method,of introducing concepts & consequences,resulting in a better understanding of flying-related-principles.If not for our stuck-in our-ways selves,who might not make use of such content,at least to do so,for an up-and-coming generation of users.On that note -Might I suggest trying the various AIRCRAFTTYPE Landing Challenges.Particularly the 6 off Stearman Landing Challenges.When you've earned Gold for all of them,if you're still not happywith Flight's performance monitoring, and training aspects,please come back & say so.Preferably & hopefullyyou'll all have done so with some merit.Personally,as a 99% of-the-time chopper flyer,they forced me to lose some bad habits.Whilst I dislike the ICON as a plane, (though admire its modeling),as Flight's default aircraft,it's an enormous improvement, capability-wise,over the FSX product's default trike aircraft.The Stearman is a different beast entirely,especially on full-realism settings.I've never felt so frustrated,died so frequently/spectacularly/or needlessly,yet had so much fun, in a long time.Flight - Earn your wings !HTHATBPaul

as a Airline pilot and long time flight simulator enthusiast all i can say about your post its :Brilliant . thanks for nother positive note mate.

Edited March 1, 201214 yr by rtodepart

I see that the DLC can be purchased separately, without having to purchase the points... I have to admit that I hate such points schemes... rumour has it that Microsoft may well rid themselves of the points system...But one thing showed up that can be mildly annoying: Pricing.Given fluctuations in exchange rates, prices change regularly, but $19.99 is definitely not €19.99... though that is the price you see for the expansion pack if you switch to a Euro land...It would be cheaper to pay the $ price and take the foreign transaction fee than pay the € price... then again, it may not be possible?Andrew